PAN UK, Wildlife and Countryside Link and RSPB quit VI

[Bogweevil]

Dear Secretary of State

We are writing to you today on behalf of the RSPB, Wildlife and Countryside Link and Pesticide Action Network UK (PAN UK) ... to announce our formal resignation from the Pesticides Forum and Voluntary Initiative. .. today, we are officially resigning from these voluntary bodies and calling for them to be replaced with the mandatory measures required to discourage pesticide use and support farmers to adopt non-chemical alternatives. Amongst other steps, these should include:
 Increased support for research into Integrated Pest Management (IPM) and better support to farmers to adopt IPM and organic techniques, for example through the Environmental Land Management Scheme.
 Introduce a pesticide-use reduction target alongside an improved monitoring system which measures the impact of pesticide use on human health, the environment and wildlife.
 Consult on the introduction of a pesticide tax to drive more sustainable use of pesticides in the future, with revenue reinvested into supporting sustainable agriculture...

http://www.pan-uk.org/site/wp-conte...d-Voluntary-Initiative-Resignation-Letter.pdf

 

[Exfarmer]

This is just the beggining of the first battle in the war.
Once we are out of the EU , the pressure will be relentless from these groups.
I dont like to say I told you so!

 

[fudge]

This is just the beggining of the first battle in the war.
Once we are out of the EU , the pressure will be relentless from these groups.
I dont like to say I told you so!

The current government is in a tailspin. This time agriculture won’t avoid the fallout, they are desperate for any sniff of popularity A rapid trade deal with Trump combined with much greater regulation. Fan bloody tastic.

 

[Campani]

Genuine question. Has the voluntary initiative achieved anything for farming or the environment? Always seemed a talking shop to me.

 

[B'o'B]

Genuine question. Has the voluntary initiative achieved anything for farming or the environment? Always seemed a talking shop to me.

I think it has, but they would be hard to quantify. These groups now know that the tide on pesticides has turned and feel that they will get more of what the want by dropping out of the VI. I think they might be right.

 

[ollie989898]

What pesticides do they want banned exactly, the EU have done away with most of them.

Time to let it all go fallow take the payment and let them import the stuff if this is the attitude they have.

 

[B'o'B]

What pesticides do they want banned exactly, the EU have done away with most of them.

Time to let it all go fallow take the payment and let them import the stuff if this is the attitude they have.

They want to ban pesticides end of, I have to say I do feel a bit like going along with your second paragraph at the moment.

 

[ollie989898]

They want to ban pesticides end of, I have to say I do feel a bit like going along with your second paragraph at the moment.

It would pish me off no end the attitude they have. A lot of people are getting older and probably dont want the grief much more. Grass it all down and rent it out to dairy boys for £150/acre and let them mow it 3 times a year. Much more of this interfering BS and I would chuck it in.

They think pesticides are bad for birds you wait till a 9m butterfly mower and some nitrogen is in play.

 

[DrWazzock]

It doesn't matter how you spin it, without crop protection products, agriculture will decline, food production will decline.

Pests don't listen to ethical arguments. They keep destroying crops no matter what talk there is of ecology, integrated pest management and all those hot air talking shops.

Pests generally have to be controlled and killed at some point unless you are willing to be overrun by them and lose your livelihood to them.

Sadly we are run now by people who have never walked through a crop devastated by pests before it has even got past the seedling stage. They haven't put in the work and seen it brought to nothing. They haven't invested their own time and money and seen it completely wasted. They can't see anything good in a healthy crop.

The rot has well and truly set in.

 

[curlietailz]

What pesticides do they want banned exactly, the EU have done away with most of them.

Time to let it all go fallow take the payment and let them import the stuff if this is the attitude they have.

I’d be very happy to fallow everything, and take a payment. BUT
It would mean making my staff redundant, cancelling my agreement with a local contractor, not putting money into all the local suppliers of machinery, parts, fert, etc

I think I’d have as much money as I have now, without any of the work and hassle but all the local suppliers and labour would be very much worse off. I probably spend in the region of £200k a year locally so if every farmer laid their farms to fallow the whole agricultural support infrastructure would collapse and when the tide turned and the Govt actually realised that British farmers are really good at producing really good British food it would be difficult/impossible to crank it back up again
IMHO

 

[ollie989898]

It doesn't matter how you spin it, without crop protection products, agriculture will decline, food production will decline.

Pests don't listen to ethical arguments. They keep destroying crops no matter what talk there is of ecology, integrated pest management and all those hot air talking shops.

Pests generally have to be controlled and killed at some point unless you are willing to be overrun by them and lose your livelihood to them.

Sadly we are run now by people who have never walked through a crop devastated by pests before it has even got past the seedling stage. They haven't put in the work and seen it brought to nothing. They haven't invested their own time and money and seen it completely wasted. They can't see anything good in a healthy crop.

The rot has well and truly set in.

The time is approaching where you may in fact say 'fudge them' and let them eat nothing but bread made using the flour from GMHT wheat.

 

[ollie989898]

I’d be very happy to fallow everything, and take a payment. BUT
It would mean making my staff redundant, cancelling my agreement with a local contractor, not putting money into all the local suppliers of machinery, parts, fert, etc

I think I’d have as much money as I have now, without any of the work and hassle but all the local suppliers and labour would be very much worse off. I probably spend in the region of £200k a year locally so if every farmer laid their farms to fallow the whole agricultural support infrastructure would collapse and when the tide turned and the Govt actually realised that British farmers are really good at producing really good British food it would be difficult/impossible to crank it back up again
IMHO

Of course those are all obvious knock on effects. It would be a sad day to see millions of acres turned to scrub but there is nothing a topper wont sort.

 

[DrWazzock]

The old bloke who lived on the smallholding opposite us always said that man will build cities to starve in.

I reckon he was some kind of prophet.

 

[Flower Power]

So how do the organic boys manage? Just typical, someone suggests banning pesticides and you spit the dummy and suggest you all lay your land to fallow. Instead you should be approaching it from the angle of, so we can't use pesticides so how do we produce a crop without them? It's probably a cliche but don't give me problems give me solutions.

 

[ollie989898]

So how do the organic boys manage? Just typical, someone suggests banning pesticides and you spit the dummy and suggest you all lay your land to fallow. Instead you should be approaching it from the angle of, so we can't use pesticides so how do we produce a crop without them? It's probably a cliche but don't give me problems give me solutions.

You seen any organic oilseed rape about?

Organic sugar beet??

You think pesticides hurt birds you wait till tined weeders and interow cultivators get into play with their egg smashing action.

Makes no odds. The lot will be imported from abroad where its all GM crops.

The reason birds are in decline is because of folk in southern Europe netting thousands of them.

If solutions existed besides pesticides they would already be used. Organic farming cannot provide the same level of output per unit area meaning more land must be farmed to obtain the same volume of food.

Not that you understand any of this because you are a lentilist with an agenda.

 

[Bury the Trash]

So how do the organic boys manage? Just typical, someone suggests banning pesticides and you spit the dummy and suggest you all lay your land to fallow. Instead you should be approaching it from the angle of, so we can't use pesticides so how do we produce a crop without them? It's probably a cliche but don't give me problems give me solutions.

Combi cropping seems to mean less fungicide well it did in my barley and peas anyway...
With good trials and advice ( not that that you get from the average agronomist mind ..)most peopleccould use less ir.
Mind you it also helps having livestock in the system ,( sheep well fenced can be effective weeders ) not all fafms can practicalicully do so of course

 

[Flower Power]

You seen any organic oilseed rape about?

Organic sugar beet??

You think pesticides hurt birds you wait till tined weeders and interow cultivators get into play with their egg smashing action.

Makes no odds. The lot will be imported from abroad where its all GM crops.

The reason birds are in decline is because of folk in southern Europe netting thousands of them.

If solutions existed besides pesticides they would already be used. Organic farming cannot provide the same level of output per unit area meaning more land must be farmed to obtain the same volume of food.

Not that you understand any of this because you are a lentilist with an agenda.

I don't want to get into an argument and I'm the first to admit I don't have the answers but I do think some of the problems in the ag industry is the inability to accept change. The general public don't like chemical interference in the food they are consuming and the current growth in the vegan movement is testament to this. Perhaps there is another way.

 

[Bill the Bass]

If things are in decline so badly, the rspb need to take a long hard look in the mirror because they have been practically designing agri-environment schemes and writing the governments interpretation of the CAP for nearly 20 years.

I have seen skylarks, lapwings and curlews all make a comeback on this farm in the last 25 years, we have no agri-environment scheme and never have had. We have in that time reintroduced cereals rotated around a predominantly grassland farm though. Farmland birds love stubble and ploughed ground. as @ollie989898 says, without the use of pesticides it will be wall to wall ryegrass.

 

[Bill the Bass]

I don't want to get into an argument and I'm the first to admit I don't have the answers but I do think some of the problems in the ag industry is the inability to accept change. The general public don't like chemical interference in the food they are consuming and the current growth in the vegan movement is testament to this. Perhaps there is another way.

It’s a bit f**king stupid to go to a fully plant based diet if you want less pesticides in your food but there you go. I believe people try veganism because the vegan society and their nasty friends have very cleverly positioned themselves to suit several narratives that tap into people’s guilt and fears.

Want to save the planet? Go vegan
Want to save animals? Go vegan
Want to be healthier? Go vegan
Want to be skinny? Go vegan
Want to be cool? Go vegan

It is rather sick if you think about it, especially as all those aspects seek to exploit young, impressionable teenage girls. I worry about the manipulative world my daughter has entered.

What type of weirdo defines themselves by what they eat anyway when 36 million people die from hunger every year?

 

[Flower Power]

It’s a bit fudgeing stupid to go to a fully plant based diet if you want less pesticides in your food but there you go. I believe people try veganism because the vegan society and their nasty friends have very cleverly positioned themselves to suit several narratives that tap into people’s guilt and fears.

Want to save the planet? Go vegan
Want to save animals? Go vegan
Want to be healthier? Go vegan
Want to be skinny? Go vegan
Want to be cool? Go vegan

It is rather sick if you think about it, especially as all those aspects seek to exploit young, impressionable teenage girls. I worry about the manipulative world my daughter has entered.

What type of weirdo defines themselves by what they eat anyway when 36 million people die from hunger every year?

I agree, I work alongside some of the young people who believe all of the above. As my father used to say moderation in all things. Farmers need to accept that there is a change in attitude to the food that is consumed in this country. The attitude that UK farmers are feeding the world needs to change. You need to produce a product that the customer wants and doesn't wreck the environment in the process. A fine balancing act, I'll agree but a challenge which forward thinking innovative farmers will be able to meet.