Permanent clover understory

[Banana Bar]

Is anyone experimenting with white clover for this purpose. It almost looks like the perfect cover crop?

BB

 

[Stuart J]

Talk me through your planned system with it BB

How do you plan herbicides timing?

 

[Banana Bar]

Nothing planned as yet, looking at ideas though.

 

[Badshot]

I had a decent amount of clover in a grass ley I DD beans into.
The clover did just about survive, but the pre em herbs used in the following wheat knackered it .

 

[Rattie]

We are working on it Organically with several others, the Organic research centre (ORC) are running a decent wide spread trial.
We have taken Organic crops to harvest dd into permanent trefoil, with mixed results. I think the missing link here is a decent inter row mowing system, if we can make it work then its possibly the ultimate Organic system.

 

[ajd132]

I have heard of a variety of clover I think called rivendell that apparently establishes well on osr then can keep it in following crops. Anyone know more?

 

[Badshot]

I've got fenugreek and berseem clover as companions in my osr. Both legumes, looking at the fenugreek I hope it doesn't out compete the osr, it's growing like hell currently.

 

[Bury the Trash]

Yet another 'new trendy' discovery

White Clover .....Use low small leaved varieties for best survival rates ( it will survive a massive hit of glyphosate)

If it's also allowed to 'properly ' go seed at some point(s) then longer term it will add to the soil seed bank .

 

[Clive]

Is anyone experimenting with white clover for this purpose. It almost looks like the perfect cover crop?

BB

yes, part of a funded field lab doing this

zerotill organic is the aim with inter row mowers

 

[martian]

We've got an experiment going with heritage wheats growing through a permanent (I hope) white clover understorey. Modern wheats are too short-arsed to get above the weeds. Graze with cattle post harvest; peri-drilling glyphosate and no other sprays or fertiliser, continuous wheat; looking to drop the glyphosate once things settle down.

 

[Great In Grass]

AberAce would be the variety to use in the situation being discussed.

 

[cquick]

AberAce would be the variety to use in the situation being discussed.

AberAce works well for me, put it in at 1kg/ha with Linseed in the spring or a cover crop in autumn. It's short, well behaved and seems to persist.
As above you should give it a chance to flower and set seed if possible.
Would like to try some AberLasting this spring, too.

 

[Swedeboy]

On third rye crop with clover in the bottom.
Low harvest yield but also a forage on stubbles and clover for the cows and then grazed short with sheep before drilling.
No chem and ’only’ cow muck in autumn.

 

[farmerfred86]

David Guy who owns sky agriculture in France has been doing this for years. (Its been illegal in Normandy to have bare ground for a decade).
Its seems the perfect solution especially with OSR but it makes me nervous how they use low rates of roundup to knock back clover when needed.
It can be very difficult to control i believe once well rooted and established. (Probably a good thing?)

 

[at the edge]

On third rye crop with clover in the bottom.
Low harvest yield but also a forage on stubbles and clover for the cows and then grazed short with sheep before drilling.
No chem and ’only’ cow muck in autumn.

Interested in how you are finding things, we are located in the North of Scotland, would you have the same weather in your part?

Are you taking the Rye through to combining or lifting it for forage?

 

[AF Salers]

David Guy who owns sky agriculture in France has been doing this for years. (Its been illegal in Normandy to have bare ground for a decade).
Its seems the perfect solution especially with OSR but it makes me nervous how they use low rates of roundup to knock back clover when needed.
It can be very difficult to control i believe once well rooted and established. (Probably a good thing?)

Control isn't an issue, the SU's will kill it very easily (too easily)!

 

[Swedeboy]

Interested in how you are finding things, we are located in the North of Scotland, would you have the same weather in your part?

Are you taking the Rye through to combining or lifting it for forage?

We take the rye for grain, make forage of the stubbles and clover, graze short and the back to rye (which could probably be grazed in the autumn, but we have not tried this). Local weather - dry spring/summer wet autumn/winter and guaranteed frost over winter (so far guaranteed ...) annual rainfall 450 mm 6 degrees mean temp. I suppose you will have a longer growing season? This year we had growth thru nov which is a first. Normally sep ok then frosts set in. But, we have the light in spring and everything goes like crazy!

I like the 'system' since we have the option for grain or forage or graze depending on season or needs. New for this year will be peas for combining then oats and forage rape for winter grazing and the spring barley for combining. I like the idea of using the cattle on the arable fields and thus getting two 'harvests' from it.

 

[at the edge]

We take the rye for grain, make forage of the stubbles and clover, graze short and the back to rye (which could probably be grazed in the autumn, but we have not tried this). Local weather - dry spring/summer wet autumn/winter and guaranteed frost over winter (so far guaranteed ...) annual rainfall 450 mm 6 degrees mean temp. I suppose you will have a longer growing season? This year we had growth thru nov which is a first. Normally sep ok then frosts set in. But, we have the light in spring and everything goes like crazy!

I like the 'system' since we have the option for grain or forage or graze depending on season or needs. New for this year will be peas for combining then oats and forage rape for winter grazing and the spring barley for combining. I like the idea of using the cattle on the arable fields and thus getting two 'harvests' from it.

Sounds like it maybe worth a trial, we would struggle to get the ground dry enough to drill this way in the spring so I thought a winter crop may work, just concerned the white clover would have enough N conserved to keep the Rye green, would it need a top dress in the spring? Any white variety ought to do surely..is your Rye hybrid?

 

[Swedeboy]

We use Herakles which is not a hybrid but I am told old ’culture’ varietys work even better scavenging for what they need. Last year we placed 60 kg of N with the drill in spring. It was slow release organic prills so didn’t release fast enough for the rye to make much use of it. Probably make a big difference with mineral N (that we can’t use..).

 

[James Ream]

We grow successive crops of rye on light land and are currently making a transition to zero till. I would be interested in trialling an understorey of permanent clover but unfortunately didn’t have things in place in the autumn when our rye was established. Do you think I could ”stitch” the clover in to our established rye this spring (750a) or would I be best to wait until rye is re-established in the autumn? Other option would be to drill a catch crop including clover behind the combine but worried that clover wouldn’t be big enough to survive CC destruction in this scenario? We normally have a 6-8 week window between harvest and establishment. What do people do regarding straw residues in this situation as levels in hybrid rye crops can be huge?