Planning Applications, PD and the like (General Chat)

[George from SJM Planning]

Is that for the whole of the UK?

Just England as far as I can tell. The devolved governments can adapt it or not

 

[Dragon]

Has the permitted development of farm buildings been raised from 465 to 1000 sq m??

would with include full planning application fee @ approx£100
(I have exhausted my prior notification)
just submitted a planning app for 465m2
can i go apply for the next one at 1000m2 for the £99 initial planning fee?

 

[George from SJM Planning]

would with include full planning application fee @ approx£100
(I have exhausted my prior notification)
just submitted a planning app for 465m2
can i go apply for the next one at 1000m2 for the £99 initial planning fee?

I am not sure full planning fees were set prior to this announcement so until they are renewed again the £96 will still only cover up to 465m2.

 

[Bill the Bass]

Question:

I applied for a prior notification for an agricultural building about 18 months ago and got it. Building is now erected. I now want another building of about 425 square metres adjacent to it. Can I apply under a prior notice/ permitted development?

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Question:

I applied for a prior notification for an agricultural building about 18 months ago and got it. Building is now erected. I now want another building of about 425 square metres adjacent to it. Can I apply under a prior notice/ permitted development?

I believe you can after the 6th assuming the legislation change goes through as you will still be under the 1000m2 limit in a two year period.

 

[Nearly]

I believe you can after the 6th assuming the legislation change goes through as you will still be under the 1000m2 limit in a two year period.

Or wait another 6 months and put in for another at the new, full 1000m2?

 

[Bill the Bass]

Ok cheers. Don't really need 1000m2 - it's just more build cost for little reason, so will contact planners after the 6th.

Many thanks.

 

[HereBeDragons]

I'm just about to put in for prior notification for 2 x barns. Was going to be for a 60*30 and a 105*30 but am now going to make the 105*30 one bay bigger thanks to the rule change.

I have 5.5 acres on one site and 18.5 acres 4 miles away.

Has anybody had prior notification refused, and for what reason? I'm a bit worried they'll refuse it, and then it'll be a huge hassle having to go through planning permission instead.

At the moment, I have no covered space at all, so tractors, trencher, diggers, trailers are all out in the open. Don't even have a hardstanding to do maintenance on, which makes life interesting. Managed a full engine rebuild on the tractor last year, but it was the summer and I got lucky with the weather. Wouldn't have wanted to do it in the winter, it would have been impossible!

 

[George from SJM Planning]

I'm just about to put in for prior notification for 2 x barns. Was going to be for a 60*30 and a 105*30 but am now going to make the 105*30 one bay bigger thanks to the rule change.

I have 5.5 acres on one site and 18.5 acres 4 miles away.

Has anybody had prior notification refused, and for what reason? I'm a bit worried they'll refuse it, and then it'll be a huge hassle having to go through planning permission instead.

At the moment, I have no covered space at all, so tractors, trencher, diggers, trailers are all out in the open. Don't even have a hardstanding to do maintenance on, which makes life interesting. Managed a full engine rebuild on the tractor last year, but it was the summer and I got lucky with the weather. Wouldn't have wanted to do it in the winter, it would have been impossible!

Justifying the size of building based on the size of holding will be the key. The council will most likely ask a rural planning consultant to guage the demand for the building size against the acreage and land use.
It may not be pertinent in your situation but avoid any mention of need based on work done for others. We had a client who had PD turned down because he described the need for the building to store a combine harvester and other harvest equipment but when he described the use of the holding the building was to be sited on it was mainly grassland so the consultant made the assumption that the combine was for contracting work and their PD wasn't applicable.

 

[HereBeDragons]

Justifying the size of building based on the size of holding will be the key. The council will most likely ask a rural planning consultant to guage the demand for the building size against the acreage and land use.
It may not be pertinent in your situation but avoid any mention of need based on work done for others. We had a client who had PD turned down because he described the need for the building to store a combine harvester and other harvest equipment but when he described the use of the holding the building was to be sited on it was mainly grassland so the consultant made the assumption that the combine was for contracting work and their PD wasn't applicable.

Thanks for that. I do have a very experienced guy dealing with the application, so hopefully he will be able to make the case for me. Would it be worth putting in for just one building (the bigger one) now, and another one in a year or two?

Realistically, I'll be putting one up ASAP and the other further down the line when really need it. Consultant said you might as well put them all on one application as long as they're both built within 5 years.

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Thanks for that. I do have a very experienced guy dealing with the application, so hopefully he will be able to make the case for me. Would it be worth putting in for just one building (the bigger one) now, and another one in a year or two?

Realistically, I'll be putting one up ASAP and the other further down the line when really need it. Consultant said you might as well put them all on one application as long as they're both built within 5 years.

I would go with your consultants advice, if he thinks he can put a case forward for the whole lot and you intend to put them up in the time allowed then crack on.

My concern would be if he can't justify all of the sqm then your application will be refused. I would rather put an application in for what you need now and then build a business case for the additional at a later date.

 

[HereBeDragons]

What happens on a refusal? Can you go back again immediately, with a smaller proposition? Or do you have to wait a period of time?

I know it's a piece of string, but what sort of square meterage is feasible for a 24 acre holding? 10 acre pasture and the rest is woodlands. One building (smaller one) was to be log store for seasoning. Larger one for machinery and feed.

 

[George from SJM Planning]

What happens on a refusal? Can you go back again immediately, with a smaller proposition? Or do you have to wait a period of time?

I know it's a piece of string, but what sort of square meterage is feasible for a 24 acre holding? 10 acre pasture and the rest is woodlands. One building (smaller one) was to be log store for seasoning. Larger one for machinery and feed.

I am no expert in the use and need for agricultural buildings but I'm not sure a log store would be deemed an agricultural use.

 

[HereBeDragons]

I am no expert in the use and need for agricultural buildings but I'm not sure a log store would be deemed an agricultural use.

I think it comes under Forestry, which has broadly the same rules as agriculture.

 

[George from SJM Planning]

I think it comes under Forestry, which has broadly the same rules as agriculture.

Do you sell the firewood commercially?

 

[HereBeDragons]

I would do if I had somewhere to season it! ;-)

Seriously though, I've only just bought the 18.5 acres so it's a relative new enterprise for the most part. The 5.5 acres I've had for three years already.

If I've any chance of success with the logs (I've got plenty of them rotting outside at the moment), I really do need a log store. Will see what my rural guy says.

 

[Greenbeast]

I would do if I had somewhere to season it! ;-)

Seriously though, I've only just bought the 18.5 acres so it's a relative new enterprise for the most part. The 5.5 acres I've had for three years already.

If I've any chance of success with the logs (I've got plenty of them rotting outside at the moment), I really do need a log store. Will see what my rural guy says.

Develope a business plan, even something basic, to show intent

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Develope a business plan, even something basic, to show intent

Totally agree. Local authorities used to just allow PD because you asked now you have to prove you need it

 

[kill]

I am not sure full planning fees were set prior to this announcement so until they are renewed again the £96 will still only cover up to 465m2.

So payment is still extra per 75 metres or part of 75 metres there after????

 

[HereBeDragons]

Develope a business plan, even something basic, to show intent

Yup, that's the plan. There's a few strands to the expansion so I'll get it all noted and sent off with the application.

One thing my consultant said was that because my two plots are in different planning areas (we're right on the border with one of them, it literally runs down the edge of our field), they might be a little less fussy as it's 'not on my patch'.