Planning Applications, PD and the like (General Chat)

[Rooz]

If you have less than 5Ha and the land is outside of the residential curtilage then any structure, hard standign or engineering operation should require planning permission. My dad has 3.5Ha and lives on site but still required planning permission for a polytunnel and a hen house.

If you are reaign it from this website https://www.gov.uk/planning-permissions-for-farms/when-you-dont-need-it then the term "farming operations" does not refer to the construction of bulidings, it is (in my reading of it) saying you don't need permission to plough, pile muck, errect fences etc.

Okay, so let’s say I have a land that’s over 5 hectares.

Based on the ‘permitted Development rights’ I can erect an agricultural building without planning permission.

Am I also allowed to reside in a temporary accommodation on the same land to run my business and look after my live stock? Does this require a planning permission?

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Okay, so let’s say I have a land that’s over 5 hectares.

Based on the ‘permitted Development rights’ I can erect an agricultural building without planning permission.

Am I also allowed to reside in a temporary accommodation on the same land to run my business and look after my live stock? Does this require a planning permission?

Any form of accomodation will need planning permission and will need to pass the tests I outlined earlier.

 

[TheTallGuy]

Okay, so let’s say I have a land that’s over 5 hectares.

Based on the ‘permitted Development rights’ I can erect an agricultural building without planning permission.

Am I also allowed to reside in a temporary accommodation on the same land to run my business and look after my live stock? Does this require a planning permission?

At the very least you will need to do a 28 day "Prior Notification" on the development for your agricultural building which if certain criteria come into play can result in a full planning application being required.

As George says - any accommodation will require separate planning permission regardless of whether it is "temporary" or not.

 

[teslacoils]

Okay, so let’s say I have a land that’s over 5 hectares.

Based on the ‘permitted Development rights’ I can erect an agricultural building without planning permission.

Am I also allowed to reside in a temporary accommodation on the same land to run my business and look after my live stock? Does this require a planning permission?

Permitted development rights still require you to submit a planning application. We refer to it as pd, or 28 days, or prior notification which is notifying the planners that you are exercising your rights and they have 28days to check it meets the criteria.

I've done one in the last 3 years. The building you ask for still needs to fit the criteria especially if it's for animals. And it needs to be needed for your business.

You need planning for any residence, and needing to be on site to look after stock is not an automatic win. They will say you can easily manage those stock living in a rented house in a local village.

Since you have bought 5ha of land, over 400m from a house needed to get a animal building built, they will then say "have you got mains services, or a fire hydrant". Bare in mind every farmer knows the rules and the value of a 5ha field with nearby services away from houses (£150k), the cost to build and stock a 5000ft building (£50k for the building as they won't want any basic rickerty pole barn with a tin roof), mains water and electric, the fees and the house, you're close to just buying an existing rural house.

Not smashing you're dreams but we *all* know someone who has been trying for ages with existing connections to a village and long term farming history. That's why so many move overseas as you can buy 5ha in Spain with a house for £60k.

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Permitted development rights still require you to submit a planning application. We refer to it as pd, or 28 days, or prior notification which is notifying the planners that you are exercising your rights and they have 28days to check it meets the criteria.

I've done one in the last 3 years. The building you ask for still needs to fit the criteria especially if it's for animals. And it needs to be needed for your business.

You need planning for any residence, and needing to be on site to look after stock is not an automatic win. They will say you can easily manage those stock living in a rented house in a local village.

Since you have bought 5ha of land, over 400m from a house needed to get a animal building built, they will then say "have you got mains services, or a fire hydrant". Bare in mind every farmer knows the rules and the value of a 5ha field with nearby services away from houses (£150k), the cost to build and stock a 5000ft building (£50k for the building as they won't want any basic rickerty pole barn with a tin roof), mains water and electric, the fees and the house, you're close to just buying an existing rural house.

Not smashing you're dreams but we *all* know someone who has been trying for ages with existing connections to a village and long term farming history. That's why so many move overseas as you can buy 5ha in Spain with a house for £60k.

Well said

 

[Kidds]

Besides all the above, I have never known one take less than 10 years to get a house passed.

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Besides all the above, I have never known one take less than 10 years to get a house passed.

This is generally as they need financial and business needs assessments and plans

 

[blue boy]

After responding to several posts recently on particular planning queries which have descended into general chats I thought it might be good to have a place where we can discuss planning queries in general without hijacking other people's posts.

So feel free to post anything Planning/Permitted Development/Appeals/Enforcement related.

Why do planning charge so much for livestock shed application? Could put up 10000sq ft grain or general shed under PD for less than £100 but as putting up 7000sq ft pig shed want circa £1400

 

[teslacoils]

Unsure. My 10000ft stock shed pd wasn't that dear, 18 months ago.

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Why do planning charge so much for livestock shed application? Could put up 10000sq ft grain or general shed under PD for less than £100 but as putting up 7000sq ft pig shed want circa £1400

The cost of planning applications compared to Permitted Development is very different, there is no justification for it but in practical terms the cost of a PD application doesn't even cover the admin officers time let alone the planning officer and their line manager so I suppose the costs balance out.

 

[Smith31]

We are nearing completion of building works on a barn conversion. The planning approval was gained last year, via a full application not PD (former mistle to residential dwelling). There were no conditions attached to the approval other than works needed to begin within 3 years.

If we were to let the barn out as a holiday let during the summer months, would it need separate planning permission? TIA

 

[br jones]

We are nearing completion of building works on a barn conversion. The planning approval was gained last year, via a full application not PD (former mistle to residential dwelling). There were no conditions attached to the approval other than works needed to begin within 3 years.

If we were to let the barn out as a holiday let during the summer months, would it need separate planning permission? TIA

Depends ,have you borrowed money on it ,also depends on where you are ,as in wales that would be classed as a second property and liable for a 2nd home tax .
If you have a mortgage on it you must tell lender ,and they will up the rate, all the joys of trying to do the right thing, taxes

 

[George from SJM Planning]

We are nearing completion of building works on a barn conversion. The planning approval was gained last year, via a full application not PD (former mistle to residential dwelling). There were no conditions attached to the approval other than works needed to begin within 3 years.

If we were to let the barn out as a holiday let during the summer months, would it need separate planning permission? TIA

There is no requirement under planning legislation for a change of use application and providing there is no condition precluding it then you are ok. It is not my wheelhouse but @br jones seems to make some valid points.

There is growing pressure from the rural Local Authorities to add a Use Class for holiday homes so their creation can be monitored and restricted but this is not currently the case.

 

[br jones]

There is no requirement under planning legislation for a change of use application and providing there is no condition precluding it then you are ok. It is not my wheelhouse but @br jones seems to make some valid points.

There is growing pressure from the rural Local Authorities to add a Use Class for holiday homes so their creation can be monitored and restricted but this is not currently the case.

In wales there are some differences to england

 

[Smith31]

Depends ,have you borrowed money on it ,also depends on where you are ,as in wales that would be classed as a second property and liable for a 2nd home tax .
If you have a mortgage on it you must tell lender ,and they will up the rate, all the joys of trying to do the right thing, taxes

There is no requirement under planning legislation for a change of use application and providing there is no condition precluding it then you are ok. It is not my wheelhouse but @br jones seems to make some valid points.

There is growing pressure from the rural Local Authorities to add a Use Class for holiday homes so their creation can be monitored and restricted but this is not currently the case.

Thank you, much appreciated.

 

[Adam@Rumen]

Would planning/PD be needed if some top soil removed and hardcore put down? Would it be allowed because it's permeable or is that driveways only?

What about if the topsoil was put back on top?

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Would planning/PD be needed if some top soil removed and hardcore put down? Would it be allowed because it's permeable or is that driveways only?

What about if the topsoil was put back on top?

It 'should' have PD/Planning as it will be an engineering operation.

 

[Adam@Rumen]

Thanks George

 

[Courier]

Is there anything to be concerned about in this link ?

Or is this another case of one rule for them and another rule for everyone else ?

Black Isle Media - Cummings spare cottage has no Planning or Council Tax

The "spare cottage" which Dominic Cummings claimed to stay at on his father's farm, has no planning permission nor pays any council tax.

universalcreditsuffer.com

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Is there anything to be concerned about in this link ?

Or is this another case of one rule for them and another rule for everyone else ?

Black Isle Media - Cummings spare cottage has no Planning or Council Tax

The "spare cottage" which Dominic Cummings claimed to stay at on his father's farm, has no planning permission nor pays any council tax.

universalcreditsuffer.com

Maybe the author should contact Planning Enforcement at Durham Council. If they have been in use for residential or holiday purposes for in excess of 10 years there is very little they can do about it though