Planning Applications, PD and the like (General Chat)

[Grass And Grain]

I can't see why not, the GPDO doesn't state that it has to be ground floor or all on a single level.

Well it doesn't specify does it.

I like this 150m2 class R PD. At least in future they can't refuse the upper floor for flooding!

Isn't it terrible when the planning department get the rules wrong (e.g. where in this example they asked Jane for the fee and to go through the prior notification procedure).

A suspicious mind might think they get the rules wrong deliberately.

As someone said in a previous comment, we should maybe always ask them which law/rule/notice they are referring to.

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Well it doesn't specify does it.

I like this 150m2 class R PD. At least in future they can't refuse the upper floor for flooding!

Isn't it terrible when the planning department get the rules wrong (e.g. where in this example they asked Jane for the fee and to go through the prior notification procedure).

A suspicious mind might think they get the rules wrong deliberately.

As someone said in a previous comment, we should maybe always ask them which law/rule/notice they are referring to.

I like your thinking on flooding grounds!

It is incredibly frustrating when the rules are misinterpreted by the case officer which is why we try to spell it out to them in our Planning Statements, if they can read a statement and then just check the planning policies referenced it it means they have to do less thinking!

 

[Grass And Grain]

if they can read a statement and then just check the planning policies referenced it it means they have to do less thinking!

That made me literally laugh out loud.

 

[George from SJM Planning]

That made me literally laugh out loud.

If we can produce an application that leaves no question unanswered and we can encourage the case officer to agree with our interpretation of the policies then we are doing the best job for our clients.

 

[onthehoof]

If we can produce an application that leaves no question unanswered and we can encourage the case officer to agree with our interpretation of the policies then we are doing the best job for our clients.

Is the criteria for 'previously developed sites' different from the old 'brownfield sites'

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Is the criteria for 'previously developed sites' different from the old 'brownfield sites'

No, PDL it's just the current terminology!

 

[steveR]

That made me literally laugh out loud.

Based on my experiences with local Planners, they need every little bit of help that they can get to understand what they are doing, and even then, they get it wrong...

 

[George from SJM Planning]

I am not going to criticise planning officers, I speak with them on a daily basis but they are prone to mistakes.

For the role they are undertaking they are underpaid and overworked, I know we can say that about a lot of roles but when you consider that the development of our nation is in their hands to ensure that it is done correctly and in line with local and national policy but they are being paid no more than somebody in the private sector in an admin role. Then compound that with them having 30 to 40 applications at any one time to determine within an 8-week period otherwise their department is given a black mark, and then they have to contend with applicants and agents contacting them every 5 minutes to find out what is going on with their applications.

I really do sympathise with them but when you consider that an agricultural growing application fee is only £96 and that application will pass through at least three pairs of hands at the local authority with I would imagine at least 10 to 12 hours worth of work and only half that fee ever reaches the coifers of the local authority you really start to understand why they are underpaid and overworked.

 

[ploughman1963]

I am advised that gaining planning permission for chicken and pig sheds in Shropshire is extremely challenging at present - Herefordshire and Powys are similarly difficult. I spoke to the well known planning consultant Ian Pick who deals with a lot of chicken and pig shed applications. It seems that the main stumbling block is the ammonia emissions calculations that are applied and that very few potential sites are more than 5k from a SSSI. Apparently, applications are backed up for the last 18 months. Mr Pick's advice is that he would not advise anyone to make an application for such a unit until Shropshire Council decide how they are going to handle the ammonia emissions subject. Is Mr Pick unduly pessimistic or being realistic? Is there another specialist who I could consult? Does this fall within your remit George?

 

[George from SJM Planning]

I am advised that gaining planning permission for chicken and pig sheds in Shropshire is extremely challenging at present - Herefordshire and Powys are similarly difficult. I spoke to the well known planning consultant Ian Pick who deals with a lot of chicken and pig shed applications. It seems that the main stumbling block is the ammonia emissions calculations that are applied and that very few potential sites are more than 5k from a SSSI. Apparently, applications are backed up for the last 18 months. Mr Pick's advice is that he would not advise anyone to make an application for such a unit until Shropshire Council decide how they are going to handle the ammonia emissions subject. Is Mr Pick unduly pessimistic or being realistic? Is there another specialist who I could consult? Does this fall within your remit George?

Unfortunately it is not something I have experience in but I do remember seeing several articles about poultry farms in general being difficult to get planning for because of the smell and ammonia emissions.
Ian Pick is certainly one of the preeminent rural planning consultants and I believe he is fairly local to the area too so I would imagine he would have the right steer on these developments. If you want a second opinion the Rural Planning Practice (www.therpp.co.uk) may be able to help. I haven't worked with him personally but they have a good reputation.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

I am advised that gaining planning permission for chicken and pig sheds in Shropshire is extremely challenging at present - Herefordshire and Powys are similarly difficult. I spoke to the well known planning consultant Ian Pick who deals with a lot of chicken and pig shed applications. It seems that the main stumbling block is the ammonia emissions calculations that are applied and that very few potential sites are more than 5k from a SSSI. Apparently, applications are backed up for the last 18 months. Mr Pick's advice is that he would not advise anyone to make an application for such a unit until Shropshire Council decide how they are going to handle the ammonia emissions subject. Is Mr Pick unduly pessimistic or being realistic? Is there another specialist who I could consult? Does this fall within your remit George?

The planning system is not designed to cope with many of our emerging issues. The planning "sustainability test" is nothing of the sort really. The system is happy to continue permitting new development where the water supply can't cope and the impact on emissions is horrific but these are outside the scope of their current test.

In Hampshire new builds are stacked up due to high nitrates in The Solent. Permission had been granted but they can't start until they find a way to ensure the buildings don't increase nitrate releases to water, something they have no control over.

We are using a 1940's planning process to address 2020's issues!

 

[ploughman1963]

The planning system is not designed to cope with many of our emerging issues. The planning "sustainability test" is nothing of the sort really. The system is happy to continue permitting new development where the water supply can't cope and the impact on emissions is horrific but these are outside the score of their current test.

In Hampshire new builds are stacked up due to high nitrates in The Solent. Permission had been granted but they can't start until they find a way to ensure the buildings don't increase nitrate releases to water, something they have no control over.

We are using a 1940's planning process to address 2020's issues!

The public want cheap food but have a sufficiently wealthy existence to be able to feel concerned about the environment and so are happy to import food with a high carbon footprint in terms of travel bdd Ed cause they don’t have the environmental issues on their doorstep

 

[S J H]

I wonder if anyone can help, I have to apply for planning to concrete an area of the yard for a capital works grant. At the moment it is hardcore, although I did not go through planning.

Would- ‘Prior Approval: Private road for agricultural/forestry use’ be the correct permission to apply for? Thanks in advance

 

[George from SJM Planning]

I wonder if anyone can help, I have to apply for planning to concrete an area of the yard for a capital works grant. At the moment it is hardcore, although I did not go through planning.

Would- ‘Prior Approval: Private road for agricultural/forestry use’ be the correct permission to apply for? Thanks in advance

Yes I believe so, apply under that one and if the council decide to change it it is on them. The Planning Portal isn't the most intuitive when selectingt he type of application.

 

[S J H]

Yes I believe so, apply under that one and if the council decide to change it it is on them. The Planning Portal isn't the most intuitive when selectingt he type of application.

Thank you very much George.

Merry Christmas and happy new year.

 

[dannewhouse]

I'm wanting to put up another livestock building and a produce store, if I put in for the produce store will I have to complete this before applying for the livestock shed? Or can I have 2 projects ongoing?
If I do the livestock planning first, I will loose the 1000m2 permitted development and be at 465 for full planning which will make the application a bit dearer.

(I am going to do the livestock first but will probably be starting the produce store before I fully finish)

 

[George from SJM Planning]

If the Livestock Building is under full planning then as soon as you make a start you will lose the Permitted Development rights for the Produce Store. If you can I would get the Prior Notification for the Produce Store, make a significant start and then apply for the Livestock building.

What is the cumulative floor area?

 

[dannewhouse]

If the Livestock Building is under full planning then as soon as you make a start you will lose the Permitted Development rights for the Produce Store. If you can I would get the Prior Notification for the Produce Store, make a significant start and then apply for the Livestock building.

What is the cumulative floor area?

Haven't quite decided on the livestock shed but minimum 300m2 cattle shed.
I need 350m2 minimum for the produce store but I would add another building to maximise that useing as s much of the 1000m2 as I could.
I would split it into 3 applications if I didn't do the produce store first.

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Haven't quite decided on the livestock shed but minimum 300m2 cattle shed.
I need 350m2 minimum for the produce store but I would add another building to maximise that useing as s much of the 1000m2 as I could.
I would split it into 3 applications if I didn't do the produce store first.

Remember that any new hard-standing associated with the buildings will have to come out of that 1,000 square metres as well and the measurement will be to the external face of the walls.
Furthermore it is not a given that you can just put 1,000 square metres of building up, if you're getting to that level the council may wish for a certain level of justification.

 

[barnfield]

Hi all, happy Christmas etc!!

I have planning under class q for a steel portal frame, however since taking down adjoining barn it has a much better aspect on one side. I would like to increase the window size, and I would like to change the internal layout, happy to keep same room dimensions but just with the communal rooms being in the area with better view and the bedrooms where the communal area was.

It's a condition for me to have zinc roof, and my plans the sides as timber clad to upper elevations (previously fibre cement). However I think continuing the zinc would make sense rather than introduce new material. Is this going to be a problem.

I had hoped to start groundworks in the next couple of weeks. How do I go about permission for the above or can I get it retrospectively once build complete/underway?