buffalo_soldier
Member
- Location
- cumbria
. That's me safe then. Don't think I would welcome any compulsion on this though as I could lose a potential edge.
Pneumonia
- Thread starter bazza3034
- Start date
. That's me safe then. Don't think I would welcome any compulsion on this though as I could lose a potential edge.Yes they will. For someone with such strong opinions on this thread you seem to have very little understanding on how vaccines and antibiotics work.
CharcoalWally
Member
- Location
- West of Scotland
Christ Almighty! I leave the house last night and it's a perfectly laudable conversation about how pneumonia may or may not be spread in cattle markets , I come back in and I find that F/M disease is raging through the country and it's suggested it's thanks in part to livestock markets.
It does however , illustrate how the drip drip effect of propaganda does work , and how powerful organisations use it for their own ends to achieve what they want. The Blair Labour Government of the day spent plenty of time pointing the finger at markets , and glossed over the fact that Border controls had been less than industrious in preventing infective materials from entering the country in the first place , and the fact that we had no system in place for tracking sheep movements accurately. Incredibly , looking back , nobody seemed able to answer where these sheep had gone , so , instead of getting ahead of the disease , we had to sit and wait for it to show up , by which time it was too late. All sorts of mistakes were made. Actually , maybe we should ban dealers. Yeah , health eagles , how about it? We ban them completely. We make it an illegal activity , and you would be liable to prosecution if you were proved to be earning from dealing activities. They must help to spread disease , but I haven't heard them mentioned.
Ironically , sheep are now probably tracked first and foremost by auction markets via CCP points. It is , as guth has already said , why we now have 6/13 day standstill rules , a sheep tracing database , electronic tags , movement papers. It is a very different ovine world compared to the one we were living in in 2001. And a good thing too. let's hope they're never needed for the purpose they were devised.
Anyway , back to this moving away from markets caper. A little story for all of you who want to do just that from our little remote corner of Scotland. We used to have a very small cattle market in our local town. It was mothballed for many years , and then re-opened in 1992. It provided a service locally for farmers that wanted to use it to cut down travel costs incurred in selling. It traded for over two years , but closed again for the last time in early '95. It had a monthly sale where it would sell maybe anything up to 150 cattle at most. And it closed because buyers could no longer be persuaded to travel all that distance to buy such a small number of cattle.
So , if that was the case , how the hell would we ever get buyers to come all this way to buy one group of cattle off one farm? Answer , we wouldn't. So we would be stuffed. Because every business , be it an agricultural , livestock based business , or any other kind of business with products to sell , needs a facility to trade through , and that for us out here , is a livestock market. Without it , we would never meet customers.
Right , here's the deal. Yes , I know livestock markets aren't perfect - nothing in life is. I'm fully aware that they could spread illness. That's where the livestock industry has to rise to the challenge of only marketing healthy stock from a healthy national herd/flock. It's the only way forward , because livestock markets facilitate our industry , they allow it to function on a practical , convenient level that we haven't been able to better so far. Maybe in the future , who knows?
Finally , as for direct farm to farm sale. Every time you bring another farmer on to your own farm , you invite another theoretical risk in the door. Because other farmers can bring muck , bacteria , virus with them.
Nothing in life is foolproof. We're all just doing the best we can.
It does however , illustrate how the drip drip effect of propaganda does work , and how powerful organisations use it for their own ends to achieve what they want. The Blair Labour Government of the day spent plenty of time pointing the finger at markets , and glossed over the fact that Border controls had been less than industrious in preventing infective materials from entering the country in the first place , and the fact that we had no system in place for tracking sheep movements accurately. Incredibly , looking back , nobody seemed able to answer where these sheep had gone , so , instead of getting ahead of the disease , we had to sit and wait for it to show up , by which time it was too late. All sorts of mistakes were made. Actually , maybe we should ban dealers. Yeah , health eagles , how about it? We ban them completely. We make it an illegal activity , and you would be liable to prosecution if you were proved to be earning from dealing activities. They must help to spread disease , but I haven't heard them mentioned.
Ironically , sheep are now probably tracked first and foremost by auction markets via CCP points. It is , as guth has already said , why we now have 6/13 day standstill rules , a sheep tracing database , electronic tags , movement papers. It is a very different ovine world compared to the one we were living in in 2001. And a good thing too. let's hope they're never needed for the purpose they were devised.
Anyway , back to this moving away from markets caper. A little story for all of you who want to do just that from our little remote corner of Scotland. We used to have a very small cattle market in our local town. It was mothballed for many years , and then re-opened in 1992. It provided a service locally for farmers that wanted to use it to cut down travel costs incurred in selling. It traded for over two years , but closed again for the last time in early '95. It had a monthly sale where it would sell maybe anything up to 150 cattle at most. And it closed because buyers could no longer be persuaded to travel all that distance to buy such a small number of cattle.
So , if that was the case , how the hell would we ever get buyers to come all this way to buy one group of cattle off one farm? Answer , we wouldn't. So we would be stuffed. Because every business , be it an agricultural , livestock based business , or any other kind of business with products to sell , needs a facility to trade through , and that for us out here , is a livestock market. Without it , we would never meet customers.
Right , here's the deal. Yes , I know livestock markets aren't perfect - nothing in life is. I'm fully aware that they could spread illness. That's where the livestock industry has to rise to the challenge of only marketing healthy stock from a healthy national herd/flock. It's the only way forward , because livestock markets facilitate our industry , they allow it to function on a practical , convenient level that we haven't been able to better so far. Maybe in the future , who knows?
Finally , as for direct farm to farm sale. Every time you bring another farmer on to your own farm , you invite another theoretical risk in the door. Because other farmers can bring muck , bacteria , virus with them.
Nothing in life is foolproof. We're all just doing the best we can.
Off on a tangent, I'm almost positive @bovine was female on her profile when she first startedNo he's not
We're not without cases of pneumonia, but since we tagged and tested the whole herd for BVD a couple of years ago, we've had a hell of a lot less. And now we're BVD free, they actually respond to treatment. Before, you could throw everything at them and they still croaked
One thing is if you suspect a calf is 'off' don't leave it. I've been guilty of 'seeing how it is at tonight's milking', then you kick yourself. Get into them early and you shouldn't notice them again.
I still believe Micotil can't be beaten, but have decent results with A180.
Northeastfarmer
Member
- Location
- Cleveland
Micotil was the bestOff on a tangent, I'm almost positive @bovine was female on her profile when she first started
We're not without cases of pneumonia, but since we tagged and tested the whole herd for BVD a couple of years ago, we've had a hell of a lot less. And now we're BVD free, they actually respond to treatment. Before, you could throw everything at them and they still croaked
One thing is if you suspect a calf is 'off' don't leave it. I've been guilty of 'seeing how it is at tonight's milking', then you kick yourself. Get into them early and you shouldn't notice them again.
I still believe Micotil can't be beaten, but have decent results with A180.
Bovine is a bloke. IF it said female (and I don't remember doing so) then it was an accident.
A180 is a fluoroquinolone and used for the most serious infections in people. It would never be my first choice for pneumonia.
You are 100% right about the negative effects of BVD. We had a dairy farm who had endless problems (sour and pneumonia) and eradicating BVD made the problem go away.
A180 is a fluoroquinolone and used for the most serious infections in people. It would never be my first choice for pneumonia.
You are 100% right about the negative effects of BVD. We had a dairy farm who had endless problems (sour and pneumonia) and eradicating BVD made the problem go away.
Northeastfarmer
Member
- Location
- Cleveland
Maybe bvd tags should be free or subsidised
Why? The benefits of dealing with BVD will pay for themselves many times over. WHY should the taxpayer pay?
Cowcalf
Member
- Location
- North of Scotland
Is there a pneumonia vaccine that covers all known strains ? do not need it myself just curious to the discussion
There is a vaccine for all common bacteria and viral causes. To get full protection you'd have to use 2 or more different vaccines.
There are no commercially available mycoplasma vaccines for cattle, but you can have one made up for a specific farm.
Northeastfarmer
Member
- Location
- Cleveland
Just to encourage more take up
We initially did the whole herd through an RDPE grant
Northeastfarmer
Member
- Location
- Cleveland
Sounds good certainly get more uptake
ridger
Member
- Location
- Tyrone, Northern Ireland
I was sure bovine was female to !Off on a tangent, I'm almost positive @bovine was female on her profile when she first started
We're not without cases of pneumonia, but since we tagged and tested the whole herd for BVD a couple of years ago, we've had a hell of a lot less. And now we're BVD free, they actually respond to treatment. Before, you could throw everything at them and they still croaked
One thing is if you suspect a calf is 'off' don't leave it. I've been guilty of 'seeing how it is at tonight's milking', then you kick yourself. Get into them early and you shouldn't notice them again.
I still believe Micotil can't be beaten, but have decent results with A180.
M-J-G
Member
I'm not disagreeing at all with any of that. I simply stated that markets are not only way of knowing prices. Pig farmers may be loosing £9 a pig, but sheep farmers were claiming to be loosing £20-£30 a lamb, and I hear whispers from the odd beef finisher every now and again that finishing beef can be a bit of a struggle due to store cattle being a bit expensive.
You are preaching to the converted when it comes to markets, as you will see from any live vs dead threads that I post on that I do not condone direct slaughter, I agree that markets are needed, I agree that they keep a bottom in the trade, I agree that lots of people see it as a social day out (although I'm not keen on it unless its a bulls sale etc.)
But they are a way of putting clean stock at risk through being in contact with stock off unknown farms, so I simply cannot agree that it is as Bio secure a way of moving stock as farm to farm is.
buffalo_soldier
Member
- Location
- cumbria
Maybe it's his easy going, relaxed and considered nature that is causing the confusion.
.
kernowcluck
Member
- Location
- Cornwall
We have the same issue as @CharcoalWally with selling stock. Not many years ago we had at least five small markets within a few miles of us now we just have Truro, a big old draughty shed where cattle in particular stand on concrete for hours, are shoved around, mixed up and scared witless by incompetent drovers always in a hurry and thats before they are loaded with strange beasts to travel lord knows how far. It's the same with abattoirs. We now only have one that I would call local whereas before we had loads. None of this is condusive to animal welfare, disease control or reduces the carbon footprint of the produce. One of the big supermarkets used to buy my named sire Aberdeen Angus finished beef but persuading buyers to come down to Cornwall to view stores is a non-starter.
I guess this thread is the result of "agro-progress " and the costs to the industry incurred in an attempt to maintain animal health in the face of modern husbandry and public expectations. Maybe in the future it will come a full circle. It would be good to think that we could make that decision before we are forced to but I'm not going to hold my breath.
I guess this thread is the result of "agro-progress " and the costs to the industry incurred in an attempt to maintain animal health in the face of modern husbandry and public expectations. Maybe in the future it will come a full circle. It would be good to think that we could make that decision before we are forced to but I'm not going to hold my breath.
kernowcluck
Member
- Location
- Cornwall
Does that mean you'll take him more seriously now then?
Northeastfarmer
Member
- Location
- Cleveland
No he'll stop flirting with him nowDoes that mean you'll take him more seriously now then?
ridger
Member
- Location
- Tyrone, Northern Ireland
makes no difference to me! i had a bullock with snotty nose today fed him and he seems ok, should i jag him anywayDoes that mean you'll take him more seriously now then?