"Project fear" proven right....GOVERNMENT WASTES NO TIME IN SHUTTING DOWN UK FARMS!!!!

[steveR]

They were delighted to announce that funding would be matched for the next 5 years yet if you look closely no envir payments are available until at least 2024 by which point farmers funding have already dropped substantially, talk about Misleading!!!!!!!

Lying even...?

 

[steveR]

We have a meeting with Defra in the next couple of weeks to discuss ELMS and the fact we are all pretty confused. Hoping to get a bit more clarity and trying to keep a positive vue until then.

Good luck, because according to my "contact" 2-3 weeks ago, NE and DEFRA staff were also in the dark...

 

[Wolds Beef]

@Cowabunga I farm grassland you can not do anything else with(Yes, even in rural Lincolnshire.) I am as interested as you as to how they are going to benefit livestock farms.
WB

 

[WRXppp]

I think they have a massive amount of work to do, one of the main things we are going to say to them. There just seems to be a massive void of information right now. But I feel from other conversations that a lot more is going on in the background then we are aware of.

There has been a lot of pilot scheme work done up Wensleydale and all seem very happy with results and these where to be shared with agents in the area before Christmas but all meetings got dropped due to the election, as I understand it any CS or ELS/HLS schemes will be able to roll over on a yearly basis until ELMS is launched. As for BPS it’s days have always been numbered and pencils will have to be sharpened!

 

[fgc325j]

View attachment 854314

6.4% alcohol ! - definitely good.

 

[Tha Ulsterscot]

I read the first 2 pages and skipped to here. Farming will never be taken seriously by politicians, for two reasons, (1) we haven't enough votes to worry about, and (2) as this thread shows everyone would rather be at someone else's throat than form a united front and Strike or protest the way farmers across Europe have been doing. Farmers United could bring the Country to a stand still and make the Gov. listen, but carry on squabbling and moaning and see where it gets you all.

 

[DRC]

There has been a lot of pilot scheme work done up Wensleydale and all seem very happy with results and these where to be shared with agents in the area before Christmas but all meetings got dropped due to the election, as I understand it any CS or ELS/HLS schemes will be able to roll over on a yearly basis until ELMS is launched. As for BPS it’s days have always been numbered and pencils will have to be sharpened!

Sums it up that they were going to share it with agents first. Every week I get glossy agent brochures or newsletters sent in the post. Why can’t they roll out a simple scheme that most farmers could do themselves .
It would be interesting to do a list of everyone, other than farmers, who will loose out if and when subs / enviro payments go .

 

[Chae1]

I do. I farm LFA, Profits are low and I claim a subsidy of four figures. I also do other things.

I also recognise farming marginal to poor land, or mountain is completely different to those on good land.

Subs although largely de-coupled from Agricultural business still does have a lot to commend its continued support in the years to come with environmental changes - and in promoting the retention of carbon.

Farms are asset rich and cash poor, bitching about subs just for the sake of it is boring and unnecessary, I realise loses happen due to unsustainable prices, and profit is difficult on good land, and all but impossible on poor land but to equate subs to farm profit in this post Brexit age with what the country as a whole faces for the period of transition to the average layman is unpalatable imo.

Sounds similar to us! LFA, our farms surrounded by trees. When they were clearing land they decided there was no point going any further after ours!

I agree, i don't feel like anyone owes us subsidies. Other industries have been allowed to collapse by the government and we're no different.

 

[spin cycle]

way i see it is that with bps you effectively got paid to crop or raise stock on a acreage basis....i know technically it was decoupled but it was still counted in cfa agreements ect.....then you could get cs options on top that still allowed a certain amount of production.........under ELMS i can see it being a choice.....unsubsidised production or taking the payments for environmental options with no production......at current prices it's difficult to see anything but a drastic cut in production
areas at risk
1/cfa....take the bps out is it still viable?.....those crops will have to compete with ELMS options
2/grazed els/hls grass.....something like an ungrazed pp option finishes a lot of graziers
3/ uplands...they want trees
4/ tenants....won't landlords just say 'pay the rent or give ir back so we can claim ELMS'?
it's all very worrying but it's just my take so might not be right

 

[delilah]

Its just part of relentless globalisation.

Which is why, for anyone who wishes to continue to produce food in the UK and be paid a fair return to do so, your best mates are to be found within the environment movement, which is instinctively anti globalisation and pro localization.

The reality is they might as well just pay every adult in the country £10k p.a.

Universal basic income. Has been Green Party policy for years.

 

[Cowabunga]

@Cowabunga I farm grassland you can not do anything else with(Yes, even in rural Lincolnshire.) I am as interested as you as to how they are going to benefit livestock farms.
WB

I strongly suspect that there will be no benefit or inducement to continue to farm livestock. On the contrary, as things stand there is growing pressure to phase ruminant livestock out or at least reduce numbers substantially, and the easiest way for the powers-that-be to achieve this is to make sure that it uneconomic to farm them.

 

[DRC]

way i see it is that with bps you effectively got paid to crop or raise stock on a acreage basis....i know technically it was decoupled but it was still counted in cfa agreements ect.....then you could get cs options on top that still allowed a certain amount of production.........under ELMS i can see it being a choice.....unsubsidised production or taking the payments for environmental options with no production......at current prices it's difficult to see anything but a drastic cut in production
areas at risk
1/cfa....take the bps out is it still viable?.....those crops will have to compete with ELMS options
2/grazed els/hls grass.....something like an ungrazed pp option finishes a lot of graziers
3/ uplands...they want trees
4/ tenants....won't landlords just say 'pay the rent or give ir back so we can claim ELMS'?
it's all very worrying but it's just my take so might not be right

Depends on the tenancy, as AHA tenancy rents are supposed to be based on the earning capacity of the farm.
my landlords agents are quick to tell me that they’ve looked on the website to see how much BPS we claim, at rent review

 

[andybk]

This is my point, the EU was great for farmers!

You really think that level of funding was going to go on for much longer ? There are vast mountains of cash disappearing in eastern euro states . Have you not seen all the massive farmer protests right across the Western EU over yet more regulation and green tax , i know MSM has imposed a news blackout but plenty on twitter and facey
It might just be we are ahead of the game and are more flexible / agile than the EU superstate in future .

 

[Chae1]

Why was it so great?

We were contributing a massive percentage of total money.

Receiving the lowest payment per ha in EU. Hence us getting convergence money as top up.

 

[Bossfarmer]

Why was it so great?

We were contributing a massive percentage of total money.

Receiving the lowest payment per ha in EU. Hence us getting convergence money as top up.

because we were getting direct payments to bridge the gap and see us through difficult years

 

[Bossfarmer]

I strongly suspect that there will be no benefit or inducement to continue to farm livestock. On the contrary, as things stand there is growing pressure to phase ruminant livestock out or at least reduce numbers substantially, and the easiest way for the powers-that-be to achieve this is to make sure that it uneconomic to farm them.

are wales scrapping the direct payments also? ive heard scotland plans to keep them but not sure if itll just be the lfa areas or capped

 

[Chae1]

because we were getting direct payments to bridge the gap and see us through difficult years

Farmers have always thought things were difficult. Can't remember anyone dancing from the rooftops when fat cattle were £4/kg. Myself included.

 

[Bossfarmer]

Farmers have always thought things were difficult. Can't remember anyone dancing from the rooftops when fat cattle were £4/kg. Myself included.

yes profitability across the industry has been low even with the subs but its kept many going, now its a case of from struggling to no hope for many once the support goes, some will gain i.e big dairies thats about it

 

[Wooly]

Lets be honest, any industry that is given Government subsidies becomes inefficient.

Farm subsidies were good when we were short of food and the payments were for farmers that produced food........ even if it really meant that the Supermarkets got rich very quick on the back of the farmers.

The current system is poor value for taxpayers. How many rich Land Owners are claiming thousands in payments but produce nothing, instead letting someone else rent his land !!

Too many old farmers are still farming as the payments are their pension. This means that there is less opportunity for youngsters that want to come into the industry but can't.

Fading out the payments over a few years is a better prospect than how the New Zealand Government did it !

 

[DrWazzock]

Looking at it another way.

Some farmers carry on producing food without subs. Nobody can have a go at them as they are standing on their own feet. Yes some inefficient ones might not survive but that's just business. I believe though that many British farmers can meet the challenge to farm subsidy free.

Some farmers take the cash and go for environmental schemes. It's what the public wants so fair enough.

Some do a bit of both.

What's the problem?

My 10 cow suckler herd becomes a hobby. Well never mind. It always was anyway, but at least the MIL won't keep harping on about how much taxpayers money I am wasting.

Keep calm and carry on, or sell up or turn it into a nature reserve. At least we have choices in this industry. Many don't.