Ram costs

[Sendhelp]

Blackie sale at Tavistock?

Stirling i don't keep blackies

 

[exmoorromney]

Stirling i don't keep blackies

Sorry was replying to @egbert

 

[Sendhelp]

300 is a grown up bunch of sheep, so borrowing a lamb/oldie off a mate is hardly you.
(and your business should warrant some attention to detail.)

Commercial suggests non-pedigree/purebred, clay with moss sounds wet?
Are you buying in ewes or keeping your own replacements?

If you're just shopping for rams as you need them, to sire fat/store lambs, then breed is secondary to shape/growth/ease of management.
Sounds like you're in't north/over the border, where seemingly the presumption is that a ram fit for purpose should cost many hundreds if not thousands.
This is evident hooey, as unless you're determined to go for genetic improvement, you would be far better off buying one or two that exactly fit your bill, keep some ewes of suitable stature, and keeping entire sons thereof.
They'll cost you a fat lamb price each, will almost certainly perform as well as something raised and fed by a 'ram breeder', and will quite possibly recoup that when you've used them.
We would (almost) all be better off like that if the truth were known!
(says a man whose boy slipped off to a tup sale this morning with the brief that 'we've probably got enough, but you can spend £200-300 if you fancy summat')

I am wet. I have upped the number need more tups. I am looking to expand the number next two years by keeping replacement. I mostly have cross ewes cheviot /mules after two years go back to terminal for finishing lambs.

 

[AftonShepherd]

New thread please!!


How much is too much to pay for a ram only to produce prime lambs

I think I was once told ten fat lambs but it might not have been ten or it might have been bulls and store bullocks. Personally I've never quite paid that for a Texel and only occasionally needed to go over that for an NCC for breeding replacements.

 

[Nithsdale]

I think I was once told ten fat lambs but it might not have been ten or it might have been bulls and store bullocks. Personally I've never quite paid that for a Texel and only occasionally needed to go over that for an NCC for breeding replacements.

Read back through, @neilo has already said the "10 lamb" rule is too much when lambs are making £100... saying £1000 just to breed prime lambs is too much


So how much is too much?



As an aside the dearest tup I've ever bought was £650 (and that was 15yr ago... and he didn't even survive the first winter here he was going on pure ewes.)
Next nearest 550gns... then 480 twice... normally I'm in the £350-£450 bracket - with the odd bargain for £100 or £150..

But as I am now buying less rams and breeding more of my own. I feel my budget will go upwards to try and breed better (selling better surplus rams to fund the better purchase)

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

Read post number 4 from @andybk on the ram cost per lamb reared.

Tells you all you need to know about how much is too much.

 

[Nithsdale]

Read post number 4 from @andybk on the ram cost per lamb reared.

Tells you all you need to know about how much is too much.

They are very simple maths which don't work in the real world.

Hell of a lot of very expensive tups don't see their 2nd or 3rd birthday... they don't sire the 375 lambs or get a return as cull

 

[AftonShepherd]

But as I am now buying less rams and breeding more of my own. I feel my budget will go upwards to try and breed better (selling better surplus rams to fund the better purchase)

I'm heading the same way I think. Haven't bought any new blood this year.

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

They are very simple maths which don't work in the real world.

Hell of a lot of very expensive tups don't see their 2nd or 3rd birthday... they don't sire the 375 lambs or get a return as cull

It's quite simple, you adjust the number of lambs to spread the cost over. As he explains in post 4.

 

[Nithsdale]

It's quite simple, you adjust the number of lambs to spread the cost over. As he explains in post 4.

It still doesn't answer the point @neilo raised when he said the value of 10 lambs is too much for a tup just to produce prime lambs... (which I pulled up to try and stirr things for some banter but that point seems to have gone totally over your head)


You can adjust figures to suit all you want but the basic statement boils down to just how much is too much to pay for a prime lamb maker... And your reply "see post 4" isn't an answer

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

I reckon it is. Because if you know how much your end lamb is worth and how much your ram adds to each of those lambs (say £5), then he only needs to tup 98 lambs to allow for £10 knacker fees (for a £500 shearling say).

Beyond that is too much in that he has cost more than he's added value.

It's obvious that you don't know how many lambs if any, your new ram is going to sire, so there is no definite answer to the question, unless the ram breeder offers a discount for early mortality. But Andy's formula is as good a way as any to work out what might happen given any number of variables.

And those maths work out every single time in the real world.

 

[The Jolly Farmer]

I once sold a tup that wasn't working in the fat ring. That evening I met the cashier from the market who told me that Mr X who was well known for being miserable had been in the office to pay for the tup. That weekend at a farm sale Mr X asked me why I was selling such a good tup in the fat ring. I told him it was the poorest tup I had and was left on it's own after the rest had been put out so I just sold it fat .

It was year's before he spoke to me again.

As for how much is to much?

If the cheque bounce it was to much.

 

[Nithsdale]

I reckon it is. Because if you know how much your end lamb is worth and how much your ram adds to each of those lambs (say £5), then he only needs to tup 98 lambs to allow for £10 knacker fees (for a £500 shearling say).

Beyond that is too much in that he has cost more than he's added value.

It's obvious that you don't know how many lambs if any, your new ram is going to sire, so there is no definite answer to the question, unless the ram breeder offers a discount for early mortality. But Andy's formula is as good a way as any to work out what might happen given any number of variables.

And those maths work out every single time in the real world.

And after all that... we finally get there

 

[egbert]

Blackie sale at Tavistock?

yup.
He came home with a 2t of Dave Legassicks breeding for £250
By local standards, a very good flock to buy from............his ewes live on very wet ground, are tough as old boots, and very sound.
(there'll be no figures recorded, or ought like that.....but I know the flock, and trust the man)

 

[egbert]

I once sold a tup that wasn't working in the fat ring. That evening I met the cashier from the market who told me that Mr X who was well known for being miserable had been in the office to pay for the tup. That weekend at a farm sale Mr X asked me why I was selling such a good tup in the fat ring. I told him it was the poorest tup I had and was left on it's own after the rest had been put out so I just sold it fat .

It was year's before he spoke to me again.

As for how much is to much?

If the cheque bounce it was to much.

well there's a result right there!

 

[exmoorromney]

yup.
He came home with a 2t of Dave Legassicks breeding for £250
By local standards, a very good flock to buy from............his ewes live on very wet ground, are tough as old boots, and very sound.
(there'll be no figures recorded, or ought like that.....but I know the flock, and trust the man)

A good days shopping then. What was trade like in general?

 

[egbert]

A good days shopping then. What was trade like in general?

I'm happy to have such a creature on the reserves bench at that money.
I haven't had the report yet...he dumped this yun home, told me the previous offering had been double the money (mine was the last of DL's batch)- then he was off again.
I would expect a top of around a grand, and picking your choice to have cost you £400-500

 

[AftonShepherd]

I once sold a tup that wasn't working in the fat ring. That evening I met the cashier from the market who told me that Mr X who was well known for being miserable had been in the office to pay for the tup. That weekend at a farm sale Mr X asked me why I was selling such a good tup in the fat ring. I told him it was the poorest tup I had and was left on it's own after the rest had been put out so I just sold it fat .

It was year's before he spoke to me again.

As for how much is to much?

If the cheque bounce it was to much.

My grandfather was once accosted by someone he didn't recognize complaining that a tup he'd bought hadn't bred well. On further investigation it transpired he'd been bought out of the fat ring at Paisley obviously having been rejected for some reason. For a good few years afterwards any reject tup lambs were introduced to the burdizzos before going to the market!

 

[Estate fencing.]

I put a tup and a yearling mule in the culls this week, the same man bought both. The tup was 6 years and toothless (and just started to loose weight this week) and the yearling just kept getting out. I know for a fact he has bad fencing and wouldn’t know how to look after anything so both are probably gone already.

 

[Ysgythan]

Nobody ever regretted buying a tup that was too good.