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Red clover

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
Don’t know any sheep farmers that grow red clover for sheep and for silage intended for sheep.
Always led to believe that red clover was the dairymans choice for 3-4 cuts of high protein silage with grass to reduce the amount of bought in feeds.

A lot of sheep farmers have told me how good it is as a lamb fattening crop in the Autumn, it's what to do with it the rest of the time that might be the issue? It needs to be rotationally grazed and is particularly unforgiving of grazing in a wet winter I understand.
 

sheepdogtrail

Member
Livestock Farmer
My take on it from organic sheep perspective. Over 20 years using Red Clover in my pastures. Some blocks for years where 80% Red Clover and 20% IRG or ARG or Triticale. In some years I have had my sheep on those paddocks throughout the entire breeding and lambing period without any negative effects on lambing percentage or bloating. In general, we average about a 235% drop rate. I suppose my lambing rate could have be higher, but 235% is good enough for me.

That said, I do use a low phyto cultivar which has a grazing/persistence life of about 5 years if I can keep the waterfowl off it during the winter. In my situation of managed grazing, I can control the residual of the plant, via daily or x2 daily moves when needed. My annual loss of RC plants is mostly the result of waterfowl grazing it. I can not control that very well, even with the use of a shot gun. Thousands, 10's of Thousands waterfowl will rob me blind. RC is not unique to this, all of my high sugar grasses and white clovers suffer from the same issue. The only good thing is I am left with a free fertilizer application every year.

Regarding lamb drop performance, I believed that there is some sort of genetic component to it. Just what, I do not know. But, I can say that it seems the more generations of cake, grain, soy free your stock is, the more likely they will do well on RC leys. In my case, all of my sheep are direct descendants from sheep that have not had any thing other than grass, legumes, herbs and weeds for over 20 years. I produce mules (BFLxClun Forrest) that I then tup the females to a terminal (1/4 UK Texel, 1/4 UK Suffolk, 1/4 NZ Texel, 1/4 NZ Suffolk), which produces my market lambs.

So in closing, it is possible to have a sheep operation doing well on RC pastures if one pays attention to genetics in both the beast and graze.
 
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20210225_120138.jpg

Nothing much changes, recognise a lot of those. use merviot at a higher seed rate. It's angry.
 
Location
Devon
Sorry if i have missed it but say for example you have a red clover ley in for 3/4 years, then plough it out for wheat/barley etc, how many years before its safe to re-plant the same land with another red clover ley?
 
Only with the rye grass disappearing and the clover becoming patchy. Was a Cotswold 3/4yr ley so thought time was up

Fields with significant AMG burden or weeds may also come to the end of their lives through this mechanism.

Don't cut red clover/tetraploids low and don't overgraze or drive on them when it's wet.
 

Derrick Hughes

Member
Location
Ceredigion
A lot of sheep farmers have told me how good it is as a lamb fattening crop in the Autumn, it's what to do with it the rest of the time that might be the issue? It needs to be rotationally grazed and is particularly unforgiving of grazing in a wet winter I understand.
Have you grown Crimson clover at all . I admit to not being up to speed with it. Its feed value is lower but you could dump that after grazing and would not survive a hard winter any way, seed is half the price of other Red Clovers although seed is bigger
 
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neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
Have you grown Crimson clover at all . I admit to not being up to speed with it. Its feed value is lower but you could dump that after grazing and would not survive a hard winter any way, seed is half the price of other Red Clovers although seed is bigger

Yes, I had a couple of fields in a Crimson Clover/IRG mix last year. Slugs loved it in one field, even more so than the 3 doses of slug pellets applied, or the Redstart broadcast on later to thicken up the slug damage.
In the other field (no slug pellets needed or applied) the Crimson Clover did really well. Some appears to have survived the winter too, until a fortnight ago anyway.

I’m not sure if I’d bother with that mix again. It looks a big crop, but low DM. Probably not a huge yield improvement over a well managed PRG/WC ley tbh, which is much more forgiving of occasional abuse.

I do have to say that it was a long way behind the ProtoPlus (IRG/Crimson clover/Persian clover) that I grew a few years ago, but seed much cheaper than that mix.
 

Grass And Grain

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Yorks
Sorry if i have missed it but say for example you have a red clover ley in for 3/4 years, then plough it out for wheat/barley etc, how many years before its safe to re-plant the same land with another red clover ley?
You can replant the next day

https://beefandlamb.ahdbdigital.org...FjAIegQIBxAC&usg=AOvVaw213gAfRfzqFwpAMILWyy3-[/URL]

AHDB are saying a 5 year break, extended to 7 years if stem nematode present.

I don't think reseeding the next day and growing RC continuously would be a good idea.

How many years sensible to grow it for before ploughing out? Don't know.
 

ISCO

Member
Location
North East
We have a field of red clover/ryegrass mix at the moment sown last June when it rained having also had a field for 3 years about 5 years ago. This is a standard barenbrug mix I think from great in grass.
It does fatten lambs better than anything else I have ever grown. We do lose the odd one with red gut when grazing.
The intention was to make high quality silage for the ewes however it never really worked with our first attempts some years ago as it was always too wet.
We are trying again this year but will now make further enquires before feeding to ewes as I always thought that it was only grazing around tupping that potentially reduced fertility.
 

Derrick Hughes

Member
Location
Ceredigion
We have a field of red clover/ryegrass mix at the moment sown last June when it rained having also had a field for 3 years about 5 years ago. This is a standard barenbrug mix I think from great in grass.
It does fatten lambs better than anything else I have ever grown. We do lose the odd one with red gut when grazing.
The intention was to make high quality silage for the ewes however it never really worked with our first attempts some years ago as it was always too wet.
We are trying again this year but will now make further enquires before feeding to ewes as I always thought that it was only grazing around tupping that potentially reduced fertility.
No one can advise you as they just don't know,
It would be inrisopsable to advise either way
This is the link
I also have the ibers link thats states the problem can be worse in conserved forage

 

ISCO

Member
Location
North East
No one can advise you as they just don't know,
It would be inrisopsable to advise either way
This is the link
I also have the ibers link thats states the problem can be worse in conserved forage

I intend to ask our sheep consultant vet what her view is which will be good enough for me. I recall she was pleased when we said we had planted it.
That is all I can do. If she thinks there is a risk silage will feed beef cattle instead.
 

Derrick Hughes

Member
Location
Ceredigion
I intend to ask our sheep consultant vet what her view is which will be good enough for me. I recall she was pleased when we said we had planted it.
That is all I can do. If she thinks there is a risk silage will feed beef cattle instead.
Can you let us know what her views are . But if Ibers can't give you a definitive answer I will be surprised if she can
 

awkward

Member
Location
kerry ireland
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Looking to sow some red clover as a protein crop,any information on soil type,timing regards sowing and mowing would be helpful.Going to try direct drill to establish.

If it hasn't been said take a look at crimson clover aswell
 

ISCO

Member
Location
North East
Can you let us know what her views are . But if Ibers can't give you a definitive answer I will be surprised if she can
Her view will be the best we can do though. She may well have practical experience of feeding red clover silage.
Not too concerned as we can feed silage to beef cattle and grazing is rocket fuel for lamb fattening.
We will be cutting once and then fatten lambs on it which is main purpose.
Had been thinking of sowing another field this year but, having watched 4 webinars last week by SRUC on rotational grazing, it struck.me none of the farmers featured grew it. One did grow multi species herbal l TBeys which he rates highly and I have been discussing with son if we should maybe go down this route instead as we are increasing our use of paddock grazing.
 

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