- Location
- Welshpool Powys
It’s very well known the risk grazing red clover so no need to look back through the forum thanks.
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Red clover
- Thread starter shortshift
- Start date
- Location
- Montgomeryshire
A lot of sheep farmers have told me how good it is as a lamb fattening crop in the Autumn, it's what to do with it the rest of the time that might be the issue? It needs to be rotationally grazed and is particularly unforgiving of grazing in a wet winter I understand.
- Location
- Western Washington
My take on it from organic sheep perspective. Over 20 years using Red Clover in my pastures. Some blocks for years where 80% Red Clover and 20% IRG or ARG or Triticale. In some years I have had my sheep on those paddocks throughout the entire breeding and lambing period without any negative effects on lambing percentage or bloating. In general, we average about a 235% drop rate. I suppose my lambing rate could have be higher, but 235% is good enough for me.
That said, I do use a low phyto cultivar which has a grazing/persistence life of about 5 years if I can keep the waterfowl off it during the winter. In my situation of managed grazing, I can control the residual of the plant, via daily or x2 daily moves when needed. My annual loss of RC plants is mostly the result of waterfowl grazing it. I can not control that very well, even with the use of a shot gun. Thousands, 10's of Thousands waterfowl will rob me blind. RC is not unique to this, all of my high sugar grasses and white clovers suffer from the same issue. The only good thing is I am left with a free fertilizer application every year.
Regarding lamb drop performance, I believed that there is some sort of genetic component to it. Just what, I do not know. But, I can say that it seems the more generations of cake, grain, soy free your stock is, the more likely they will do well on RC leys. In my case, all of my sheep are direct descendants from sheep that have not had any thing other than grass, legumes, herbs and weeds for over 20 years. I produce mules (BFLxClun Forrest) that I then tup the females to a terminal (1/4 UK Texel, 1/4 UK Suffolk, 1/4 NZ Texel, 1/4 NZ Suffolk), which produces my market lambs.
So in closing, it is possible to have a sheep operation doing well on RC pastures if one pays attention to genetics in both the beast and graze.
That said, I do use a low phyto cultivar which has a grazing/persistence life of about 5 years if I can keep the waterfowl off it during the winter. In my situation of managed grazing, I can control the residual of the plant, via daily or x2 daily moves when needed. My annual loss of RC plants is mostly the result of waterfowl grazing it. I can not control that very well, even with the use of a shot gun. Thousands, 10's of Thousands waterfowl will rob me blind. RC is not unique to this, all of my high sugar grasses and white clovers suffer from the same issue. The only good thing is I am left with a free fertilizer application every year.
Regarding lamb drop performance, I believed that there is some sort of genetic component to it. Just what, I do not know. But, I can say that it seems the more generations of cake, grain, soy free your stock is, the more likely they will do well on RC leys. In my case, all of my sheep are direct descendants from sheep that have not had any thing other than grass, legumes, herbs and weeds for over 20 years. I produce mules (BFLxClun Forrest) that I then tup the females to a terminal (1/4 UK Texel, 1/4 UK Suffolk, 1/4 NZ Texel, 1/4 NZ Suffolk), which produces my market lambs.
So in closing, it is possible to have a sheep operation doing well on RC pastures if one pays attention to genetics in both the beast and graze.
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deleted user 837354
Member
.
Nothing much changes, recognise a lot of those. use merviot at a higher seed rate. It's angry.
gone up the hill
Member
- Location
- Devon
Sorry if i have missed it but say for example you have a red clover ley in for 3/4 years, then plough it out for wheat/barley etc, how many years before its safe to re-plant the same land with another red clover ley?
deleted user 837354
Member
- Location
- Ceredigion
Have you grown Crimson clover at all . I admit to not being up to speed with it. Its feed value is lower but you could dump that after grazing and would not survive a hard winter any way, seed is half the price of other Red Clovers although seed is bigger
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- Location
- Ceredigion
You can replant the next day
- Location
- Western Washington
Also agree with Derrick. There is no reason why you could not plant RC into a former cereal crop the next day or any day for that matter with the right seedbed prep and a good trash management (sweeping) drill.
- Location
- Montgomeryshire
Yes, I had a couple of fields in a Crimson Clover/IRG mix last year. Slugs loved it in one field, even more so than the 3 doses of slug pellets applied, or the Redstart broadcast on later to thicken up the slug damage.
In the other field (no slug pellets needed or applied) the Crimson Clover did really well. Some appears to have survived the winter too, until a fortnight ago anyway.
I’m not sure if I’d bother with that mix again. It looks a big crop, but low DM. Probably not a huge yield improvement over a well managed PRG/WC ley tbh, which is much more forgiving of occasional abuse.
I do have to say that it was a long way behind the ProtoPlus (IRG/Crimson clover/Persian clover) that I grew a few years ago, but seed much cheaper than that mix.
- Location
- Yorks
https://beefandlamb.ahdbdigital.org...FjAIegQIBxAC&usg=AOvVaw213gAfRfzqFwpAMILWyy3-[/URL]
AHDB are saying a 5 year break, extended to 7 years if stem nematode present.
I don't think reseeding the next day and growing RC continuously would be a good idea.
How many years sensible to grow it for before ploughing out? Don't know.
Jdunn55
Member
- Location
- Helston, cornwall
- Location
- Ceredigion
No 1 for lamb finishing , thats why I've spent so much time looking into it
And its not an expensive crop to grow
ISCO
Member
- Location
- North East
We have a field of red clover/ryegrass mix at the moment sown last June when it rained having also had a field for 3 years about 5 years ago. This is a standard barenbrug mix I think from great in grass.
It does fatten lambs better than anything else I have ever grown. We do lose the odd one with red gut when grazing.
The intention was to make high quality silage for the ewes however it never really worked with our first attempts some years ago as it was always too wet.
We are trying again this year but will now make further enquires before feeding to ewes as I always thought that it was only grazing around tupping that potentially reduced fertility.
It does fatten lambs better than anything else I have ever grown. We do lose the odd one with red gut when grazing.
The intention was to make high quality silage for the ewes however it never really worked with our first attempts some years ago as it was always too wet.
We are trying again this year but will now make further enquires before feeding to ewes as I always thought that it was only grazing around tupping that potentially reduced fertility.
- Location
- North East Wilts
5 years in theory. We rotate RC through wheat to Lucerne to wheat and back to RC.
- Location
- Ceredigion
No one can advise you as they just don't know,
It would be inrisopsable to advise either way
This is the link
I also have the ibers link thats states the problem can be worse in conserved forage
Sheep farmers advised to avoid over-grazing to protect red clover leys
22 February 2021
ISCO
Member
- Location
- North East
I intend to ask our sheep consultant vet what her view is which will be good enough for me. I recall she was pleased when we said we had planted it.No one can advise you as they just don't know,
It would be inrisopsable to advise either way
This is the link
I also have the ibers link thats states the problem can be worse in conserved forage
Sheep farmers advised to avoid over-grazing to protect red clover leys
22 February 2021businesswales.gov.wales
That is all I can do. If she thinks there is a risk silage will feed beef cattle instead.
- Location
- Ceredigion
Can you let us know what her views are . But if Ibers can't give you a definitive answer I will be surprised if she can
awkward
Member
- Location
- kerry ireland
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Looking to sow some red clover as a protein crop,any information on soil type,timing regards sowing and mowing would be helpful.Going to try direct drill to establish.
If it hasn't been said take a look at crimson clover aswell
Looking to sow some red clover as a protein crop,any information on soil type,timing regards sowing and mowing would be helpful.Going to try direct drill to establish.
If it hasn't been said take a look at crimson clover aswell
ISCO
Member
- Location
- North East
Her view will be the best we can do though. She may well have practical experience of feeding red clover silage.
Not too concerned as we can feed silage to beef cattle and grazing is rocket fuel for lamb fattening.
We will be cutting once and then fatten lambs on it which is main purpose.
Had been thinking of sowing another field this year but, having watched 4 webinars last week by SRUC on rotational grazing, it struck.me none of the farmers featured grew it. One did grow multi species herbal l TBeys which he rates highly and I have been discussing with son if we should maybe go down this route instead as we are increasing our use of paddock grazing.