Red Tractor - Mass Cancellation

[Wooly]

The trouble with all these anti RT posts........that appear to get more supporters each time they are posted......... is that not a single person connected with RT comes on to defend the scheme. I'm sure that they are reading them !

When the Wool Board were getting stick a few years back; the then Chairman and prominent forum member @Frank-the-Wool, wrote an excellent piece to explain how the system worked and why payment was always delayed a year. All but the most anti BWMB farmers went away happier.

Could someone important from the RT please do the same. At least we may see things from a different perspective and perhaps even realise that the RT scheme is better than a Government alternative !

Until that happens, then more and more will be inclined to think you are robbing b#stards who are just another parasite living off farmers hard work !

 

[nick...]

I think your last paragraph sums them up nicely
Nick...

 

[Tarw Coch]

Is it true that certain milk processors are stopping their suppliers selling calves thru marts? I've heard this on jungle drums....

Not sure of an outright ban but some milk buyers certainly encourage it.
I know Tesco suppliers are graded on a points basis and IIRC points can be gained by selling to their preferred outlet which IIRC was buitlear for calves, the same with Barrens, with points gained for selling to IIRC Foyles.

At the end of the year, those with the lowest points lose their contract whilst those at the top get to supply additional litreage, the vast majority get to keep their contracts as they are.
The points system is based on a lot more criteria than just where calves and Barrens are sold but everyone knows at the end of the year some are getting kicked out, selling to their preferred outlet is relatively easy points allthough no doubt just about everyone will be doing it of their own free will.

 

[Northernlights]

Just for informations sake, Farm Assurance in Scotland has been whole life for well over 10 years. No problem apart from the 10p a kilo price difference for unassured stock when the rules came in. Plenty of people who aren't farm assured though, who also often top the market, which, on the face of it does fly in the face of the"farm assurance premium ". These people are however very good at what they do.
It will be interesting to see what happens in England, and whether a two tier market evolves.

The thing that really made me qestion farm assurance in Scotland was when I learned it was sold on by the original creators and I think has been sold on again to private buisnesses whos only interest is to make a profit out of it.(it should be non profit making) On one of my last inspections the assesor said they had doubled the area he had to cover to lower costs and that he was going to leave at the end of the year. They have also let it slip by four months from the original yearly date. Another point is that large units are only inspected at their main steading and all the satellite steadings and buildings are never inspected! Again that would add to costs!

 

[neilo]

The thing that really made me qestion farm assurance in Scotland was when I learned it was sold on by the original creators and I think has been sold on again to private buisnesses whos only interest is to make a profit out of it.(it should be non profit making) On one of my last inspections the assesor said they had doubled the area he had to cover to lower costs and that he was going to leave at the end of the year. They have also let it slip by four months from the original yearly date. Another point is that large units are only inspected at their main steading and all the satellite steadings and buildings are never inspected! Again that would add to costs!

Did he happen to tell you what an inspector gets paid? I was quite surprised when I was told it was near £30k, by someone who said he could almost get a liking for drinking tea for that.

 

[roscoe erf]

Sick to the back teeth of the whole ‘Protection Racket’ that is Red Tractor. It’s out of control and getting worse! Apparently whole life animal assurance will come in and everyone will be dragged kicking and screaming into the fold. They will not give up until everyone is brought to heel in what is a soul destroying merry go round of ever increasing and sadly self inflicted regulation! This is supposed to be an industry led scheme, but I am yet to meet a single farmer who feels it is worthwhile or that they are listened to. The whole scheme is a job creation exercise for the jobsworths at RT HQ and only benefits the processors and supermarkets who are usually the main culprits in food scares.

We have to make ourselves heard but not only at our grievances with RT but also NFU head honchos who allegedly are in bed with these lunatics. They pretend to ask for our opinion then do whatever they feel like.

How many members on TFF would back an organised mass cancellation of their RT membership? Can we get enough support to make these morons sit up and listen?

I haven't joined the circus but if I had id resign

 

[glasshouse]

That sounds good, as the owners, we could then tell them for every new rule they need to cancel 3 old ones . Also make the staff keep exacting but pointless records of daily activities. Toilet break logbook..... number of coffee granules used per coffee cup.... daily paperclip inventory, etc etc

And written records of belly button fluff removal and arsecrack inpections

 

[glasshouse]

The thing that really made me qestion farm assurance in Scotland was when I learned it was sold on by the original creators and I think has been sold on again to private buisnesses whos only interest is to make a profit out of it.(it should be non profit making) On one of my last inspections the assesor said they had doubled the area he had to cover to lower costs and that he was going to leave at the end of the year. They have also let it slip by four months from the original yearly date. Another point is that large units are only inspected at their main steading and all the satellite steadings and buildings are never inspected! Again that would add to costs!

It was dreamt up by a bunch of smartarse shiesters

 

[Grass And Grain]

Don't renew your beef or lamb assurance, then take all your stock to the live market. That's what we've done. (Yet to think of a way out of grain assurance though).

What choice would the buyers have but to buy the non-assured stock from the market. Then the scheme would be dead within 12 months.

I urge everyone to do the same.

I really can't see what they could do about it.

Once we'd proved they will buy beef and lamb without assurance (there's already a lot of lamb that isn't assured), then farmers could leave the schemes for pigs, poultry, grain etc.

 

[colhonk]

If there was an alternative to OSR to grow, then I would tell them what dark place to go. Have found that I can sell my grain without their assurance for no price reduction I did suggest to the MAN on the phone that they could maybe be a bit more user friendly to their customers and paymasters,, no, they have to be not nice to us..

 

[neilo]

Don't renew your beef or lamb assurance, then take all your stock to the live market. That's what we've done. (Yet to think of a way out of grain assurance though).

What choice would the buyers have but to buy the non-assured stock from the market. Then the scheme would be dead within 12 months.

I urge everyone to do the same.

I really can't see what they could do about it.

Once we'd proved they will buy beef and lamb without assurance (there's already a lot of lamb that isn't assured), then farmers could leave the schemes for pigs, poultry, grain etc.

I joined FABBL when it started, way back when, and kept on with it until I moved here in 2012. I didn’t bother joining as a new business, as it was making no difference at the local live mart. However, a couple of years ago, I started to see a price difference appear more often, which more than covered the membership fee and reprinting the paperwork from before, so I joined again.
Tbh, for lamb it’s hardly complicated, and most of it is legally required or good practice anyway. Most of the nonsense reports are just writing down what you do in your head anyway, then reviewing & dating each year.
It has also allowed me to access other outlets via dw too, which I reckon has meant a fiver a lamb extra over the live mart for the last 2 years for peak season lamb. Easter lambs and late hoggets have obviously been better live still, but FA has made for a decent premium on the Easter lambs too.

I’m not FA for my cereals though, or have any intention of doing so. I’d sooner accept a £5/t penalty than jump through that many hoops and extra expense, certainly on my small output. If I was a bigger cereal producer, I dare say it would be worthwhile, but not likely to be an issue here.

 

[neilo]

On the idea that RT stops the processors bringing in their own auditors, that horse has bolted. I was audited for M&S lamb supply in the Spring, so ‘I could be’ one of their suppliers through RPF. They looked at pretty much everything that RT did, with a few extra questions about farm practice on top.
I’m pretty sure most of the other processors do their own ‘random’ auditing of suppliers too.

 

[Steevo]

On the idea that RT stops the processors bringing in their own auditors, that horse has bolted. I was audited for M&S lamb supply in the Spring, so ‘I could be’ one of their suppliers through RPF. They looked at pretty much everything that RT did, with a few extra questions about farm practice on top.
I’m pretty sure most of the other processors do their own ‘random’ auditing of suppliers too.

Speaking of horses....do they audit the horse farms too?

 

[neilo]

Speaking of horses....do they audit the horse farms too?

Iirc that was down to an unscrupulous supplier of ‘meat’ for processing in Europe wasn’t it? The processors were buying a certain product, and getting something else supplied fraudulently.
I’m no fan of FA (far from it) but that was fraud on behalf of the suppliers, no more, no less.

A different, and arguably bigger, question is why is there such a market for processed meals made with cheap, low quality meat imports in the first place?

 

[milkloss]

Iirc that was down to an unscrupulous supplier of ‘meat’ for processing in Europe wasn’t it? The processors were buying a certain product, and getting something else supplied fraudulently.
I’m no fan of FA (far from it) but that was fraud on behalf of the suppliers, no more, no less.

A different, and arguably bigger, question is why is there such a market for processed meals made with cheap, low quality meat imports in the first place?

That last one is easy: price.

The public struggle or don’t want to pay our inflated cost of production.

 

[kiwi pom]

On the idea that RT stops the processors bringing in their own auditors, that horse has bolted. I was audited for M&S lamb supply in the Spring, so ‘I could be’ one of their suppliers through RPF. They looked at pretty much everything that RT did, with a few extra questions about farm practice on top.
I’m pretty sure most of the other processors do their own ‘random’ auditing of suppliers too.

So really you should be able to bin RT off, set up a contract with whatever buyer you want and just comply with their requirements?

 

[Henarar]

That last one is easy: price.

The public struggle or don’t want to pay our inflated cost of production.

A couple were looking over the yard gate at our cows and calves last week I know them a bit so got chatting to them they said how good the cattle looked and how it was the way they should be kept they were asking about different cows and calves in the end it got round to if there was much in the job I said not a lot she then said to me that she thought meat was way to cheap and that the animals should be kept properly and the meat paid for as a premium product
That was a new one

 

[neilo]

So really you should be able to bin RT off, set up a contract with whatever buyer you want and just comply with their requirements?

RT was sold to the industry as a means to head off just that, and the argument is still used to defend the RT scheme. Apparently it would be much worse if the processors set up their own schemes.

 

[glasshouse]

Iirc that was down to an unscrupulous supplier of ‘meat’ for processing in Europe wasn’t it? The processors were buying a certain product, and getting something else supplied fraudulently.
I’m no fan of FA (far from it) but that was fraud on behalf of the suppliers, no more, no less.

A different, and arguably bigger, question is why is there such a market for processed meals made with cheap, low quality meat imports in the first place?

But tesco were also unscrupulous, they knew the meat was too cheap and there had to be a catch, and they caught a horse.

 

[neilo]

But tesco were also unscrupulous, they knew the meat was too cheap and there had to be a catch, and they caught a horse.

Tesco weren't buying it though, the processor was, then supplying the supermarket order with the Lasagne (or whatever it was). You might argue that the supermarket were responsible because they drove their processor's prices down so hard, but the supplier bought the cheap meat of dubious origin to cut their costs/increase their margins. Did they tell Tesco it contained horsemeat? I very much doubt it, PR is everything to any of the supermarkets. Did the processor even know, or just choose to use a cheaper meat supplier, whose paperwork didn't say it contain horsemeat?

Somebody committed fraud, somewhere in the chain. It wasn't Tesco, and it probably wasn't their supplying processor either.