Red Tractor oops?

[spin cycle]

disturbing news story on bbc news website....3 farms in lincs.... bad conditions filmed by activists...RT aware....not much done about it....can someone do a linky

 

[Chris F]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-48745253

Chickens reared to supply major retailers are being kept in "horrifying conditions" on giant farms, an animal rights group has claimed.

Animal Equality UK said it uncovered "extreme suffering" at three Moy Park farms in Lincolnshire while carrying out a covert investigation.

The charity said carcasses were "left to rot for days".

Moy Park, which supplies products to supermarkets including Sainsbury's and Tesco, said it was investigating.

 

[Chris F]

Comment from Red Tractor:

"Our own routine auditing of these farms had identified some breaches to our high standards, and we have been working with them to ensure they put the necessary processes in place for them to remain Red Tractor-certified."

So they were bad enough to fail red tractor. But they didn’t fail them. Instead advised them what to change to get back to Red Tractor Standards and remain part of Red Tractor. All sounds good so far. But have they improved or got worse? Surely Red Tractor should know the answer to this? How long has this been happening? Have they now been removed from Red Tractor if they are still failing? Is this just the usual BBC sh!t-stirring?

Just shows what a mess the Red Tractor system is. A simple pass/fail situation helps no one. The rating should be changed to 1-9 likes gcse grades. Below 4 is a fail but you can be a 5 with room for manoeuvre to get better and then Waitrose can buy from 8-9 farms at Waitrose prices.

 

[milkloss]

This kind of thing will bring it all down

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-48745253

 

[spin cycle]

This kind of thing will bring it all down

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-48745253

can but hope....after 20+years you'd think this sorta thing wouldn't happen if rt was any good....i've started a thread also so mods may want to amalgamate

 

[Clive]

It’s a bad joke that would be funny if it didn’t cost us all hard earned money

When the heck will the NFU take control of this quango mess they created ?

 

[SilliamWhale]

Chickens all over the world live like this. No justification of course but it does make you think about the ethics of it..

 

[farmerm]

It’s a bad joke that would be funny if it didn’t cost us all hard earned money

When the heck will the NFU take control of this quango mess they created ?

RT gets dammed either way... if they take too hardline an approach we, as farmers, moan like hell. If RT take a practical approach and allow a few things to slip though stories like the above occur.

With the best will in the world in any large scale chicken enterprise you will have a dead bird somewhere in the shed and a few others that are unwell.

Standards elsewhere in the world are far lower than they are here.

 

[DrWazzock]

Chickens all over the world live like this. No justification of course but it does make you think about the ethics of it..

The reality is that livestock farming is sh!t at times and no amount of spin or whitewash or fancy publicity schemes will get round that basic fact. No amount of open farm Sunday's or red tractor or other lip service to the wind in the willows world of radio 4 listening guardian reading vegans will ever get around the fact that despite the best of intentions and the fact that we do genuinely care for our stock, sometimes things will go wrong and there will always be some fairly unsavoury sights and happenings. That's the reality of the meat industry, just as its the reality of the NHS, the education system, and just about every other system in the country.

sh!t happens and it always will.

So why don't we be honest and say we can't guarantee 100% satisfactory welfare 100% of the time, even though this is what we strive for, because just like the NHS we are only as good as our worst employee or our ability to cope under worst overload or when something such as the farmers mental health collapses, but you know what, we try our best and we really do care, even if we fail at times because we are human, not infallible automations that the bureaucrats would wish us to be.

 

[Martyn]

Comment from Red Tractor:

"Our own routine auditing of these farms had identified some breaches to our high standards, and we have been working with them to ensure they put the necessary processes in place for them to remain Red Tractor-certified."

So they were bad enough to fail red tractor. But they didn’t fail them. Instead advised them what to change to get back to Red Tractor Standards and remain part of Red Tractor. All sounds good so far. But have they improved or got worse? Surely Red Tractor should know the answer to this? How long has this been happening? Have they now been removed from Red Tractor if they are still failing? Is this just the usual BBC sh!t-stirring?

Just shows what a mess the Red Tractor system is. A simple pass/fail situation helps no one. The rating should be changed to 1-9 likes gcse grades. Below 4 is a fail but you can be a 5 with room for manoeuvre to get better and then Waitrose can buy from 8-9 farms at Waitrose prices.

The likes of waitrose know Red Tractor isnt worth a thing so they do their own audits, we had ours a while ago, they are intrested in welfare, as well as overal farm mansgment like hedge trimming etc, wildlife sceams. We have to supply medicine records quarterly and performance data, iv got no problem with their audits.

 

[farmerm]

disturbing news story on bbc news website....3 farms in lincs.... bad conditions filmed by activists...RT aware....not much done about it....can someone do a linky

There is not one of us on here, not one, who farms with such perfection that such activists couldn't sneak around their farm and never be able to find something they could film that could be branded as "disturbing". These activists intention is not to highlight and improve animal welfare, their sole goal is to create material to aid their cause in converting the world to the religion of veganism.

 

[DrWazzock]

I don't actually think that this reflects badly on RT. RT try and do succeed in raising standards and could be a value added brand if more was made of it.

The animal rights agenda is a kind of psychological terrorism, a guerrilla war designed to erode support from the meat industry, just as the IRA eroded support for unionism by bombing easy targets. So they will home in on any slight problem and use it as ammunition for their cause.

But they don't publicise the habitat and animal lives that have been lost in South America to the planting of soya for their vegan diets. Their arguments are morally dubious, illogical and hypocritical on many levels.

 

[DrWazzock]

What's more I have faith in the British public to see through such propaganda by and large. Most people are reasonably pragmatic and sensible, it's those that aren't that make most noise.

Let it blow over and carry on.

 

[Bury the Trash]

The reality is that livestock farming is sh!t at times and no amount of spin or whitewash or fancy publicity schemes will get round that basic fact. No amount of open farm Sunday's or red tractor or other lip service to the wind in the willows world of radio 4 listening guardian reading vegans will ever get around the fact that despite the best of intentions and the fact that we do genuinely care for our stock, sometimes things will go wrong and there will always be some fairly unsavoury sights and happenings. That's the reality of the meat industry, just as its the reality of the NHS, the education system, and just about every other system in the country.

sh!t happens and it always will.

So why don't we be honest and say we can't guarantee 100% satisfactory welfare 100% of the time, even though this is what we strive for, because just like the NHS we are only as good as our worst employee or our ability to cope under worst overload or when something such as the farmers mental health collapses, but you know what, we try our best and we really do care, even if we fail at times because we are human, not infallible automations that the bureaucrats would wish us to be.

That, is one of the most insightful posts i have ever read on this forum .

 

[spin cycle]

There is not one of us on here, not one, who farms with such perfection that such activists couldn't sneak around their farm and never be able to find something they could film that could be branded as "disturbing". These activists intention is not to highlight and improve animal welfare, their sole goal is to create material to aid their cause in converting the world to the religion of veganism.

me included.....but then i don't portray myself as a paragon of virtue...just a simple farmer doing his best....rt IMO is an organisation to mask factory farmings worst excess'.....obsessed with petty details it fails to do the basics well....for example...i bet these farms paperwork was spot on

 

[Clive]

RT gets dammed either way... if they take too hardline an approach we, as farmers, moan like hell. If RT take a practical approach and allow a few things to slip though stories like the above occur.

With the best will in the world in any large scale chicken enterprise you will have a dead bird somewhere in the shed and a few others that are unwell.

Standards elsewhere in the world are far lower than they are here.

I agree, so it is meaningless

Why do we “need” or pay for anything meaningless, it adds no value for producer or consumer

 

[Kidds]

So why don't we be honest and say we can't guarantee 100% satisfactory welfare 100% of the time, even though this is what we strive for, because just like the NHS we are only as good as our worst employee or our ability to cope under worst overload or when something such as the farmers mental health collapses, but you know what, we try our best and we really do care, even if we fail at times because we are human, not infallible automations that the bureaucrats would wish us to be.

I don’t think it would fit on the packet.

 

[kiwi pom]

I agree, so it is meaningless

Why do we “need” or pay for anything meaningless, it adds no value for producer or consumer

Time to scrap RT and have your buyers implement standards of their own?
Perhaps not a bad idea, some would be way stricter some not so much. The problem is it would limit your market unless you signed up for them all ( at your expense course) Don’t the veg growers do something similar now? Each supermarket has its own scheme.
RT was supposed to allow buyers to use one scheme but if it’s not working things need to change.
I very much doubt scrapping it will reduce compliance time and cost thought.

 

[DrWazzock]

Much as I find RT a pain at times, and although I think some of it could be toned down, I think it is does serve a purpose. A third party visiting your business and casting a critical eye over your systems isn't always a bad thing. RT brings together all the statutory and cross compliance rules under one common umbrella which is useful. It provides a central point to gather the various statutory rules which makes them easier to check off. RT don't make the rules, so don't blame them for them. Most of the rules are created by legislation of some sort of other.

The fact there might have been lapses in welfare at certain farms is really something that is a separate matter from the argument about the benefit of RT. Lapses will always occur, any time in any place where human failings are possible. It's a bit unrealistic to expect RT inspectors to be everywhere all of the time and if they were you'd be moaning even more!

 

[yellow belly]

With out red tractor
Would the consumer would then only buy from contracted pre inspected farms
There would be no transparent free market unless You had a audit from each consumer based on their terms