Reseach on the Impact of the Ban on Bee-Harming Pesticides and What is Next in Farming.

[RobertTheEngineer]

Hi all, I am a student at Imperial University London trying to understand how the banning of bee-harming pesticide has affected your farm and trying to come up with the next generation of the drone-based precision pest control system. It would be amazing if I could have a chat with you about this problem and try to include your input into the project! Please let me know if you are interested in taking part in the project. Meanwhile here is a quick 5 mins survey that you can answer!

Effect of the Banning of Potentially Bee-harming Pesticides, and what is next in pest control?

The UK and EU has banned potentially bee-harming pesticides such as Neonicotinoids. While this is done for good intentions, it has lead to many unintended problems. This survery is to undertstand your opinion on this matter and how it has impacted your business. It will also ask you on what you...

docs.google.com

 

[PSQ]

Done, but you clearly don’t understand the problem with a blanket ban on neonicitinoids.
We don’t need ‘improved monitoring’, we know what the problem is, we need a method of *effective control*, not a sodding drone.
The neonic ban has massively increased cypermethrin use, which is killing all the non target species. At least neo-nics didn’t kill the 99% of non target beneficials. Local bee keepers are even asking why they were banned, as they weren’t seeing a detrimental effect on their bees until the rape acreage collapsed. They put colony collapse down to varoa mite.
We’ve exported the problem. While uk acreage has halved, the Ukrainian acreage has doubled to compensate, and neo-nics are still legally used by Ukrainian farmers. So we’ve really only externalised the ‘problem’ so that British scientists can pat themselves on the back while making farming uncompetitive.
Why are you looking to see how much we’re willing to pay for a ‘solution’, and why was the cheapest option 10,000USD a year? It looks as if you’re more interested in monitising an academic spin off than saving the planet.

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

If you want to know why we shouldn't use neonicotinoids, banned or not, you should read Silent Spring by Rachel Carson. It's a book every farmer, student and agronomist should read.

 

[Kidds]

If you want to know why we shouldn't use neonicotinoids, banned or not, you should read Silent Spring by Rachel Carson. It's a book every farmer, student and agronomist should read.

Written before neonics were invented and before an awful lot of modern farming practices were implemented. Does it take into account the unforeseen consequences of banning neonics (they weren't unforeseen but the people responsible for the ban will think so) in that as PSQ says above the result is widespread use of synthetic pyrethroids killing everything, including bees.

 

[RobertTheEngineer]

Done, but you clearly don’t understand the problem with a blanket ban on neonicitinoids.
We don’t need ‘improved monitoring’, we know what the problem is, we need a method of *effective control*, not a sodding drone.
The neonic ban has massively increased cypermethrin use, which is killing all the non target species. At least neo-nics didn’t kill the 99% of non target beneficials. Local bee keepers are even asking why they were banned, as they weren’t seeing a detrimental effect on their bees until the rape acreage collapsed. They put colony collapse down to varoa mite.
We’ve exported the problem. While uk acreage has halved, the Ukrainian acreage has doubled to compensate, and neo-nics are still legally used by Ukrainian farmers. So we’ve really only externalised the ‘problem’ so that British scientists can pat themselves on the back while making farming uncompetitive.
Why are you looking to see how much we’re willing to pay for a ‘solution’, and why was the cheapest option 10,000USD a year? It looks as if you’re more interested in monitising an academic spin off than saving the planet.

Hi there,

Thank you for your reply, it is very informative! You are very right that the simple ban has failed to acknowledge many things, and that is exactly why I wish to come up with a way to change this situation. I can understand your frustration on this issue! I and many other researchers are very ignorant of the statistic on how much farmers wish to pay for a solution, so it is very important to have a budget in mind during the R&D process.

Is it possible for us to discuss this further? You can email me at [email protected]

Thank you again for the passionate comment! I look forward to speaking with you in the future!
Sincerely,
Robert Yu

 

[RobertTheEngineer]

If you want to know why we shouldn't use neonicotinoids, banned or not, you should read Silent Spring by Rachel Carson. It's a book every farmer, student and agronomist should read.

Hi there,

I also found the book quite interesting, yet the world is pretty complex and sometimes pesticides are temporally the best solution! There are immerging technologies that could help us to avoid the scenarios in the book! I would love to discuss further with you about this subject and hear your full perspective regarding to this issue!

Thank you!

 

[RobertTheEngineer]

Written before neonics were invented and before an awful lot of modern farming practices were implemented. Does it take into account the unforeseen consequences of banning neonics (they weren't unforeseen but the people responsible for the ban will think so) in that as PSQ says above the result is widespread use of synthetic pyrethroids killing everything, including bees.

Yes, that is a very good point!

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

Written before neonics were invented and before an awful lot of modern farming practices were implemented. Does it take into account the unforeseen consequences of banning neonics (they weren't unforeseen but the people responsible for the ban will think so) in that as PSQ says above the result is widespread use of synthetic pyrethroids killing everything, including bees.

I could answer your question but not as well as she does in the book.

I'm sure there will always be some lovely insecticides for people to buy and put in their sprayers. That's the point of the book really, the main beneficiaries of a lot of this stuff are the chemical companies.

 

[RobertTheEngineer]

I could answer your question but not as well as she does in the book.

I'm sure there will always be some lovely insecticides for people to buy and put in their sprayers. That's the point of the book really, the main beneficiaries of a lot of this stuff are the chemical companies.

I am currently trying to design a drone-based precision pest control system to keep the usage to a minimum and manage the pest at an early stage. It would be awesome if you could send me an email to [email protected] and we could discuss the subject in detail!.

 

[DrWazzock]

I am currently trying to design a drone-based precision pest control system to keep the usage to a minimum and manage the pest at an early stage. It would be awesome if you could send me an email to [email protected] and we could discuss the subject in detail!.

It’s admirable that you are at least trying to solve the problem but I have concerns.
Firstly I think you are trying to find a job for a drone rather than trying to solve the flea beetle problem directly.
Secondly, if there was an approved or effective insecticide available for use in your drone then we’d already be using in our crop sprayers and there wouldn’t be a problem.
Thirdly, flea beetles tend to arrive en masse in swarms making a discrete single point mode of control very unlikely to have any impact at all.

The only possibility I can see is perhaps a drone with an atttractant chemical or pheromone that could suck the beetles in, crush them and spit them out. How would this be any better than if such a machine was sitting in a box at the side of the field? Well if the drone was moving over the field it might get more beetles than if stationery at the side of the field. It will be busy though. I’d guess we get millions of the these beetles in a field. They usually emerge at night from under clods to attack the plants after their initial migration into the field. The beetles are attracted to the colour yellow. Personally I think that a 3m wise rotary brush over the field at night with a hoover to suck them in and crush them is the best bet. Beats as it sweeps as it cleans. Or a 3m wise burner that could give enough heat to toast the beetles but not kill the plants. Possible.

 

[DrWazzock]

Maybe angle the burner above the crop. The beetles like to jump. Into the sheet of flame. Bingo.

 

[RobertTheEngineer]

Maybe angle the burner above the crop. The beetles like to jump. Into the sheet of flame. Bingo.

It’s admirable that you are at least trying to solve the problem but I have concerns.
Firstly I think you are trying to find a job for a drone rather than trying to solve the flea beetle problem directly.
Secondly, if there was an approved or effective insecticide available for use in your drone then we’d already be using in our crop sprayers and there wouldn’t be a problem.
Thirdly, flea beetles tend to arrive en masse in swarms making a discrete single point mode of control very unlikely to have any impact at all.

The only possibility I can see is perhaps a drone with an atttractant chemical or pheromone that could suck the beetles in, crush them and spit them out. How would this be any better than if such a machine was sitting in a box at the side of the field? Well if the drone was moving over the field it might get more beetles than if stationery at the side of the field. It will be busy though. I’d guess we get millions of the these beetles in a field. They usually emerge at night from under clods to attack the plants after their initial migration into the field. The beetles are attracted to the colour yellow. Personally I think that a 3m wise rotary brush over the field at night with a hoover to suck them in and crush them is the best bet. Beats as it sweeps as it cleans. Or a 3m wise burner that could give enough heat to toast the beetles but not kill the plants. Possible.

Hi there,

Those are incredibly helpful ideas and feedbacks! Looking into the problem we can certainly see that drones alone would not be incredibly effective. Yet the usage of artificial intelligence/machine learning to predict where swarms may attack and where and when eggs will be layed is already incredibly useful for other pest control. It will be great if we could set up an interview! Please email me at [email protected] if you wish to talk over zoom or phone to speak further on how I am planning on implementing this system!

Thank you again for your amazing response.

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

Biology is the way forward rather than chemistry or engineering.

 

[RobertTheEngineer]

Biology is the way forward rather than chemistry or engineering.

Of course! GMO has very little damage to the environment and public health, and can sometimes be great for pest control too! However it does have its limitations and we will see how might the biologist come up with stronger breeds! For now though, innovation on hardware maybe more approachable.

 

[DrWazzock]

Hi there,

Those are incredibly helpful ideas and feedbacks! Looking into the problem we can certainly see that drones alone would not be incredibly effective. Yet the usage of artificial intelligence/machine learning to predict where swarms may attack and where and when eggs will be layed is already incredibly useful for other pest control. It will be great if we could set up an interview! Please email me at [email protected] if you wish to talk over zoom or phone to speak further on how I am planning on implementing this system!

Thank you again for your amazing response.

In autumn 2019 we had very warm very dry weather. We had flea beetle migration out of the harvested crops into the newly down crops. The newly sown crops did not grow fast due to lack of moisture so were completely eaten by the beetles. Migration and egg laying was widespread throughout the East Midlands tough less high numbers near the coast maybe due to onshore breezes:
What we need is something that will destroy them if and when they arrive. A forecast is no good if you can’t do anything when they do arrive.
Weed burners are already used in organic farming. Adapt one to kill insects in the crop. It will need careful control of the temperature to kill the beetles but leave the plants alive and will maybe best be controlled by leaving the flame constant but varying the forward speed. Artificial intelligence? Well it might be able to adjust the forward speed to kill beetles but not OSR, but do we really need to make it that complicated. Things need to be robust and simple in agriculture. I don’t want be sitting in my tractor waiting for a software update.
Engineers are supposed to solve problems simply and elegantly, not use technology just for the sake of using it. Just concentrate on solving the actual problem. Only use AI is the problem solving process needs it.

 

[RobertTheEngineer]

In autumn 2019 we had very warm very dry weather. We had flea beetle migration out of the harvested crops into the newly down crops. The newly sown crops did not grow fast due to lack of moisture so were completely eaten by the beetles. Migration and egg laying was widespread throughout the East Midlands tough less high numbers near the coast maybe due to onshore breezes:
What we need is something that will destroy them if and when they arrive. A forecast is no good if you can’t do anything when they do arrive.
Weed burners are already used in organic farming. Adapt one to kill insects in the crop. It will need careful control of the temperature to kill the beetles but leave the plants alive and will maybe best be controlled by leaving the flame constant but varying the forward speed. Artificial intelligence? Well it might be able to adjust the forward speed to kill beetles but not OSR, but do we really need to make it that complicated. Things need to be robust and simple in agriculture. I don’t want be sitting in my tractor waiting for a software update.
Engineers are supposed to solve problems simply and elegantly, not use technology just for the sake of using it. Just concentrate on solving the actual problem. Only use AI is the problem solving process needs it.

Leave the complexity and firm upgrade to us, and our goal is for you to be able to go to a pub while the drones work for you! Love to chat more on the burner too! If possible please drop me an email so I can give you my number or a link for us to chat more efficiently!

 

[Rob Garrett]

Hi all, I am a student at Imperial University London trying to understand how the banning of bee-harming pesticide has affected your farm and trying to come up with the next generation of the drone-based precision pest control system. It would be amazing if I could have a chat with you about this problem and try to include your input into the project! Please let me know if you are interested in taking part in the project. Meanwhile here is a quick 5 mins survey that you can answer!

Effect of the Banning of Potentially Bee-harming Pesticides, and what is next in pest control?

The UK and EU has banned potentially bee-harming pesticides such as Neonicotinoids. While this is done for good intentions, it has lead to many unintended problems. This survery is to undertstand your opinion on this matter and how it has impacted your business. It will also ask you on what you...

docs.google.com

Before the neo nics ban we were growing 40 acres of OSR, alongside running around 150 bee hives. I have not seen any negative impact with my bees that could be related to neo nics. My father has been keeping bees for the last 40 years and contemplated that chemicals could be one of many stresses effecting queen bee quality but this has not improved since the ban.

The neo nics ban has had a dramatic negative effect on my beekeeping, reduced acreage has resulted in reduced annual honey yields and bee health has suffered with the lack of nectar flow @ Colony build up. I have had more case's of spray kill & feel beekeepers have gone form a farmer's best friend to a bit of a pian in the arse!

It is very disappointing when so called scientists try to evidence a preconceived conclusion, as what happened with neo nics & as you are trying to do now, please learn from past mistakes, this is very bad science.

 

[RobertTheEngineer]

Before the neo nics ban we were growing 40 acres of OSR, alongside running around 150 bee hives. I have not seen any negative impact with my bees that could be related to neo nics. My father has been keeping bees for the last 40 years and contemplated that chemicals could be one of many stresses effecting queen bee quality but this has not improved since the ban.

The neo nics ban has had a dramatic negative effect on my beekeeping, reduced acreage has resulted in reduced annual honey yields and bee health has suffered with the lack of nectar flow @ Colony build up. I have had more case's of spray kill & feel beekeepers have gone form a farmer's best friend to a bit of a pian in the arse!

It is very disappointing when so called scientists try to evidence a preconceived conclusion, as what happened with neo nics & as you are trying to do now, please learn from past mistakes, this is very bad science.

Thank you for your response! I am totally not for the sudden ban on neo-nic and I am here to try to find potential to overcome the mistake the government and many scientists has made!

 

[DrWazzock]

don’t know if this link works but here is example of weed burner you could adapt, maybe, maybe not.

 

[DrWazzock]

That’s all I know really. Can’t really add much more. Maybe use hydrogen as it’s greener!