Right of access and gates. In Scotland

[melted welly]

Bought land and farm buildings years ago, previous owner kept houses and old steading. Converted as much as possible to houses and he remained in farm house. Half the land is below the farm house. Access was via a road down side of farmhouse garden, he retained ownership of road. He then decided to sell the house, extended the garden by a few acres into a field and rerouted the road (now a track) across this area to get it away from the house.

Current owner a real friendly chap who doesn’t like anything using the track.

we have a right of access which isn’t disputed, however I’ve gotten wind that after years of threatening, he’s now going to erect 2 sets of gates that will be required to be kept shut at all times. Which will be a pain at harvest and there’d be no agreement to be had to leave open I’m sure.

whats the law regarding width etc?......coz I’ve a feeling they’ll be made too narrow to fit thru with dual wheels on, but given that we and neighbours have been using for combine etc access for 20+yrs then there’s surely an obligation to retain that width.


thanks

 

[Skintagain]

I don’t think he can restrict tour established access. Someone may know better than me

I would flatten them if they were too narrow then replace the gate and replace with a wider one.

Tbh I think you need legal advice and a land agent to suss things out before it’s too late

 

[puppet]

Strong letter from your solicitor needed. You had a right of access. I suspect the previous owner should have sought your agreement to move it but when sold the current owner would have known about it. You should insist on an unobstructed access at all times.
In a good relationship you would agree that the gates would be shut after you had finished any operations if it helped security but that point sounds like it has passed.

 

[Top Tip.]

Does anyone know if there is a specific width for a right of access,I ask because I know of two cases recently where the folk with the right of way were told by the landowner that there machinery was too wide and to stop using the access. Neither of these cases had a specific width in the deeds so I wondered if there was a a width that was generally acceptable?

 

[Skintagain]

Does anyone know if there is a specific width for a right of access,I ask because I know of two cases recently where the folk with the right of way were told by the landowner that there machinery was too wide and to stop using the access. Neither of these cases had a specific width in the deeds so I wondered if there was a a width that was generally acceptable?

It’s a bit of a funny one really. Back when many of these access routes were established there would be horse and cart.

A combine is like a block of flats in comparison.

But I suppose they went from traction engines back around to grey Ferguson’s - we will have little robots buzzing around 24 hours per day before long and all this big machinery will look hideous

 

[Top Tip.]

It’s a bit of a funny one really. Back when many of these access routes were established there would be horse and cart.

A combine is like a block of flats in comparison.

But I suppose they went from traction engines back around to grey Ferguson’s - we will have little robots buzzing around 24 hours per day before long and all this big machinery will look hideous

It intrigued me because as you say when they were granted it would be a horse and cart , but in one case it was a bale trailer that was seen as too wide and in the other it was a cattle float,so neither today would seem to me to be excessively wide.

 

[Skintagain]

It intrigued me because as you say when they were granted it would be a horse and cart , but in one case it was a bale trailer that was seen as too wide and in the other it was a cattle float,so neither today would seem to me to be excessively wide.

Nor me. As long as the track/Road was fit for the job I would see no issue

 

[melted welly]

Does anyone know if there is a specific width for a right of access,I ask because I know of two cases recently where the folk with the right of way were told by the landowner that there machinery was too wide and to stop using the access. Neither of these cases had a specific width in the deeds so I wondered if there was a a width that was generally acceptable?

thats what I’m wondering too. The access was actually moved from a tar road that passed by the house to a track made of type 1 that follows the edge of the boundary. The old rd would’ve been 4m wide, the track the same, first thing the current occupier did when he moved in was to narrow the trackto a car width using blocks of wood.

surely if it is the only access available and has been created and used at a certain width for decades and in place prior to the current occupier moving in, then there would be a reasonable case that it needs to be maintained as such?........

 

[Skintagain]

thats what I’m wondering too. The access was actually moved from a tar road that passed by the house to a track made of type 1 that follows the edge of the boundary. The old rd would’ve been 4m wide, the track the same, first thing the current occupier did when he moved in was to narrow the trackto a car width using blocks of wood.

surely if it is the only access available and has been created and used at a certain width for decades and in place prior to the current occupier moving in, then there would be a reasonable case that it needs to be maintained as such?........

He has actively restricted access which isn’t right end of

 

[melted welly]

He has actively restricted access which isn’t right end of

.......well he tried but the wooden blocks didn’t last.....

 

[Skintagain]

.......well he tried but the wooden blocks didn’t last.....

He can’t close it down imo. Demanding gates are closed at all time is unreasonable.

 

[Mc115reed]

You need a land agent and copy of your deeds really because he could possibly argue that you have access, nowhere in the deeds does it state that it needs too be access for an artic truck or a space ship, access is access and he interprets access as a 1.2m wife track with a style at each end...

 

[Top Tip.]

You need a land agent and copy of your deeds really because he could possibly argue that you have access, nowhere in the deeds does it state that it needs too be access for an artic truck or a space ship, access is access and he interprets access as a 1.2m wife track with a style at each end...

Exactly, it is the interpretation of access which has not been defined on the deeds.

 

[melted welly]

.........1.2m wife track with a style at each end...

?

yes, agree, asking if anyone had any experience of similar to give some pointers. I’m sure whatever he decides to do will result in maximum awkwardness ?

 

[Skintagain]

You normally have vehicular access or foot access

 

[puppet]

Look up a website 'justanswer' Scots Law.
You have a heritable and irredeemable right of access. That is for pedestrian and vehicular unless only the former is stated. The owner can change the access if it is of benefit, such as further away from the property but you still have all the rights which must be unhindered.
So no parking, obstructing or narrowing it which you are entitled to remove.
There are various websites giving similar advice so you are on firm ground.
However, there is going to be a big confrontation at some point.

 

[Optimus]

Pretty sure he can't restrict access if it was in your deeds.
We applied to the crown for ownership of the lane to our farm as no one owned.
Had to wait 10 years unchallenged then it became ours.about a month we got it our neighbour got planing for 4 houses.

He thought the access for all the houses would be the lane.that was until we said we actually owned it.turns out if you have access it can only be split once so meant his existing house an 1 new build can use it.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

thats what I’m wondering too. The access was actually moved from a tar road that passed by the house to a track made of type 1 that follows the edge of the boundary. The old rd would’ve been 4m wide, the track the same, first thing the current occupier did when he moved in was to narrow the trackto a car width using blocks of wood.

surely if it is the only access available and has been created and used at a certain width for decades and in place prior to the current occupier moving in, then there would be a reasonable case that it needs to be maintained as such?........

I was advised by a solicitor that putting gates in, over a right of way was not an obstruction (although it would be real pain to have to open them), as for the width I would get a statutory declaration written in front of a commissioner for oaths and get it registered on the land registry (with a width) saying using dual wheeled tractors for 20 years, and also social domestic and pleasure purposes too (to access the land for a picnic for example), could you get the old owner to also write a declaration?

 

[melted welly]

I was advised by a solicitor that putting gates in, over a right of way was not an obstruction (although it would be real pain to have to open them), as for the width I would get a statutory declaration written in front of a commissioner for oaths and get it registered on the land registry (with a width) saying using dual wheeled tractors for 20 years, and also social domestic and pleasure purposes too (to access the land for a picnic for example), could you get the old owner to also write a declaration?

he died a few months ago unfortunately.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

I was surprised when my solicitor advised me that putting gates over a right of way was not an obstruction, as I thought it was, but he said the English courts would not consider it one. Width issue, can be a very sticky problem, there have been cases in England where the right of way can't be improved as a greater width is needed to do spread the spoil.

As far as a statutory declaration is concerned, it could be a contractor who wrote it too (have been foraging this land for 20 years......etc).