Sanderson 726 Gearbox problem

[John Deere 8530]

1993 Sanderson 726 solo with manual Spicer 4 speed transmission has stopped driving. Seems like something is broken in the drive-line. Was pushing in second gear and it just dropped out of drive with a bit of a whur.

There is oil coming out of the cooler pipe when removed but no oil out of the pressure testing ports on the oil filter or in front of the f/r solenoids. Oil comes out of the testing port on the dump valve and out of the f/r when in neutral. Have worked the forwards and reverse shuttle manually and nothing happened, didn't even load the engine.

Any help would be gratefully appreciated. Time to take the gearbox out?

Thanks Mark

 

[ACEngineering]

1993 Sanderson 726 solo with manual Spicer 4 speed transmission has stopped driving. Seems like something is broken in the drive-line. Was pushing in second gear and it just dropped out of drive with a bit of a whur.

There is oil coming out of the cooler pipe when removed but no oil out of the pressure testing ports on the oil filter or in front of the f/r solenoids. Oil comes out of the testing port on the dump valve and out of the f/r when in neutral. Have worked the forwards and reverse shuttle manually and nothing happened, didn't even load the engine.

Any help would be gratefully appreciated. Time to take the gearbox out?

Thanks Mark

Make sure the dump control rod is pushed all the way back in and stuck out.
Make sure you have 12 volts and an earth to each solenoid in forward and or reverse.
Make sure the solenoid valve stem i not bent (they get stood on sometimes!)
Make sure the oil level is right, tube on the side and checked with engine RUNNING.

Other wise its sounding like a gearbox out, (Mind the cab window!)

These were not known for ripping the clutch drum shafts out like the powershift version was but its possible, they are common to wear the casings were the clutch drum shaft seals run and that would stop it building pressure in the packs if it suddenly blew the seal out.

Let me know if you want help with overhauling it once you got it out.

 

[John Deere 8530]

Thanks for your in depth reply.

The dump valve seems to work properly. Tested the solenoids and the forwards one works the test light in one pin and gives a slight glow in the other pin. However don't seem to get any power at the reverse solenoid plug. We put 12v power onto the electro magnetic switch using a battery charger and it didn't work the rod. So worked the rod manually by sticking a screw driver in the end and to no avail. The solenoid valve stem isn't bent and the oil level is good, changed approx 1250 hours ago.

Think we'll take the gearbox out tomorrow then, and let you know what we find.

 

[ACEngineering]

Thanks for your in depth reply.

The dump valve seems to work properly. Tested the solenoids and the forwards one works the test light in one pin and gives a slight glow in the other pin. However don't seem to get any power at the reverse solenoid plug. We put 12v power onto the electro magnetic switch using a battery charger and it didn't work the rod. So worked the rod manually by sticking a screw driver in the end and to no avail. The solenoid valve stem isn't bent and the oil level is good, changed approx 1250 hours ago.

Think we'll take the gearbox out tomorrow then, and let you know what we find.

Pull the plugs apart, you need an earth and a 12v feed, sounds like your getting a 12v feed okay but bad earth back feeding to solenoid?

And you should get reverse powered up too.
I dont think them solenoids will work by poking the end of the valve stem?

Could slide the solenoids off the stem power them up and hold a bit of metal in them to feel the magnet pulling it.

No point diving in to transmission till you know what's going on with electrics and your not coming across very confident there imo.

 

[ACEngineering]

Thanks for your in depth reply.

The dump valve seems to work properly. Tested the solenoids and the forwards one works the test light in one pin and gives a slight glow in the other pin. However don't seem to get any power at the reverse solenoid plug. We put 12v power onto the electro magnetic switch using a battery charger and it didn't work the rod. So worked the rod manually by sticking a screw driver in the end and to no avail. The solenoid valve stem isn't bent and the oil level is good, changed approx 1250 hours ago.

Think we'll take the gearbox out tomorrow then, and let you know what we find.

Oil should he changed more often than 1250hrs imo. 800hrs is plenty.

Every 400hrs engine service
Every 800hrs change everything bar hydraulic oil.

 

[John Deere 8530]

Pull the plugs apart, you need an earth and a 12v feed, sounds like your getting a 12v feed okay but bad earth back feeding to solenoid?

And you should get reverse powered up too.
I dont think them solenoids will work by poking the end of the valve stem?

Could slide the solenoids off the stem power them up and hold a bit of metal in them to feel the magnet pulling it.

No point diving in to transmission till you know what's going on with electrics and your not coming across very confident there imo.

Yeah you're right, we'll give it another try. However there is a pin in the end of the valve stem that you can press which is spring loaded and it is working the valve as had it to bits to have a look. Then worked it manually with the engine running and nothing happened.

Okay will try that thank you and get back to you. There is no oil coming out of the testing port and also none at the oil filter with engine running, should there only be oil there when in gear?

 

[John Deere 8530]

Oil should he changed more often than 1250hrs imo. 800hrs is plenty.

Every 400hrs engine service
Every 800hrs change everything bar hydraulic oil.

Okay noted thank you. Had been doing the engine every 250 and everything else on the 1500.

 

[ACEngineering]

Yeah you're right, we'll give it another try. However there is a pin in the end of the valve stem that you can press which is spring loaded and it is working the valve as had it to bits to have a look. Then worked it manually with the engine running and nothing happened.

Okay will try that thank you and get back to you. There is no oil coming out of the testing port and also none at the oil filter with engine running, should there only be oil there when in gear?

No oil at the filter means the pumps buggered. Filter should have oil at it no matter what electrics are doing.

 

[John Deere 8530]

No oil at the filter means the pumps buggered. Filter should have oil at it no matter what electrics are doing.

My mistake, tried what I thought was a testing port for the oil filter and there was no oil but now after taking the filter off it squirts plenty of oil out.

Will do some more investigating with the electrics and let you know.

 

[John Deere 8530]

No oil at the filter means the pumps buggered. Filter should have oil at it no matter what electrics are doing.

Good afternoon. Did some more electrical testing and determined that it is a mechanical fault. So now have taken the gearbox out and couldn't see anything visibly wrong with torque converter or input shafts into gearbox. Currently in the process of taking the gearbox to bits to see if we can find a problem.

 

[John Deere 8530]

No oil at the filter means the pumps buggered. Filter should have oil at it no matter what electrics are doing.

Just wondering which gear it needs to be in to get the torpedo out of the selector rails please?

 

[ACEngineering]

Just wondering which gear it needs to be in to get the torpedo out of the selector rails please?

If your talking about what i think you are then i think there is a couple of bungs on the selector rails with a spring and ball that need to be removed in order to get the elector rails out.

 

[John Deere 8530]

If your talking about what i think you are then i think there is a couple of bungs on the selector rails with a spring and ball that need to be removed in order to get the elector rails out.

Thanks, we figured it out in the end. Got it to bits and can't see anything obviously wrong, no broken shafts or gears or bearings. Is the next step taking the clutch pack to bits? Or perhaps torque converter at fault?

 

[ACEngineering]

Thanks, we figured it out in the end. Got it to bits and can't see anything obviously wrong, no broken shafts or gears or bearings. Is the next step taking the clutch pack to bits? Or perhaps torque converter at fault?

Take it all to bits now your in to it.

Look at the shaft sealing rings and where they fit in the transmission casings see if the casing is worn.

Pull the pump a part, dog teeth on converter ok?

Both sets of splines inside the converter okay.

 

[John Deere 8530]

Okay thanks, will hopefully get that done today.

Transmission pump seemed okay with no obvious damage. Everything with the torque converter looks visibly okay with all the shafts and dog teeth still okay. How can we tell if the torque converter is knackered inside?

 

[John Deere 8530]

Take it all to bits now your in to it.

Look at the shaft sealing rings and where they fit in the transmission casings see if the casing is worn.

Pull the pump a part, dog teeth on converter ok?

Both sets of splines inside the converter okay.

Got the torque converter off and had a better look. Both drives inside are floating and can be turned, surely one should be fixed for the transmission pump drive? Would you have one in stock if needed?

 

[davidroberts30]

Got the torque converter off and had a better look. Both drives inside are floating and can be turned, surely one should be fixed for the transmission pump drive? Would you have one in stock if needed?

That sounds correct to me
Engine will spin 1 side then the fluid will spin the other

 

[John Deere 8530]

That sounds correct to me
Engine will spin 1 side then the fluid will spin the other

Cleaned it up now and can see that the drive for the gearbox (small shaft) has sheared the teeth off in the torque converter. Has always been slow to pick up drive when hot so going to carry on delving into the clutch packs and see what we can find. Thinking of changing transmission pump too as to eliminate that.

 

[John Deere 8530]

Update... Been to truck masters this afternoon as only 4 mile down the road from them. Got a resealing kit for the clutch pack as well as 14 fibre plates. They're going to recondition the torque converter and have got a new transmission pump coming too. Think it deserves it after 10,200 hours.

 

[ACEngineering]

Update... Been to truck masters this afternoon as only 4 mile down the road from them. Got a resealing kit for the clutch pack as well as 14 fibre plates. They're going to recondition the torque converter and have got a new transmission pump coming too. Think it deserves it after 10,200 hours.

Do it all, shouldn't have even considered not fitting a pump.