Scouring calves

[Cows 'n grass]

Your vet does sound a bit old school.

To diagnose a calf as a BVD PI without wanting to test it and not offering more advise such as doing an antigen test on the dam or running an antibody screen on the some other calves in that age group, seems a bit unprofessional.

My first suggestion would be to get a new vet.

 

[Stinker]

Why don't you group some blood samples and test for BVD antibodies. That will tell you if calves have come into contact with BVD. If not you can forget about BVD. If they have antibodies tag all cows and calves. Test any positives for antibodies, if they don't have any put some lead in them.

 

[bovine]

Nor what I have come across too, but meningitis in humans is transmissible so it's fair to assume it would be in young calves I would have thought.

Different causal agents.

 

[Holsteinfriesian90]

Anyone using the powder that you mix with the milk for crypto instead of halocur? What are your thoughts @bovine

 

[beefyfarmer]

Anyone using the powder that you mix with the milk for crypto instead of halocur? What are your thoughts @bovine

Yep buy it off Berrys Agriculture We had crypto and were using halocur. Moved onto the Transformula which contains said powder, haven't used Halocur since. The Transformula works out at the same price as powder + the Crypto stuff but contains more skim than most powders. Our vets will tell you it does not work. Farmers who use it will tell you it does. It has certainly worked for us. We use Coxicur as a disinfectant and keep the sheds pretty clean which must be done as well. I know of people who have a severe Crypto problem that use both and get better results than just Halocur though you would have to question the cleanliness of their calf pens.

 

[bovine]

I think we may be at crossed purposes, there is a antibiotic powder that has activity against crypto that some people are using.

Legally in this country we have to use the licensed product first, and that is Halocur. I've never been in a situation where the Halocur has failed so I can't justify prescribing the alternative.

If a beefed up milk powder works then great, I'm quite happy with that. Unless I am mistaken it doesn't contain any drugs?

 

[RastaBoy]

Well thats really interesting. I specifically asked my vet about the use of Zactran in this way in light of the concern over the responsible use of antibiotics. I wanted to be doing the right thing. My vet is adamant that use in this way is entirely appropriate and can be defended. I have used my vet to produce a full health plan for my calf rearing and, as part of that, all calves coming onto the unit are treated prophylactically with Zactran on the day of arrival. I guess this just goes to show that within the veterinary profession their are other views besides yours and there does not appear to be a full consensus. On that basis it is very difficult to determine on a forum such as this who is indeed right or wrong.
In my case i have sought the advice of my vet and implemented it accordingly.

I think it's your vet who should be listened to.
I think it's hugely unethical for a Vet to be handing out random advice on this forum. I'd actually go as far as to question whether @bovine is actually a Vet. If he is I would have thought the BVA should be investigating.

 

[coomoo]

I think it's your vet who should be listened to.
I think it's hugely unethical for a Vet to be handing out random advice on this forum. I'd actually go as far as to question whether @bovine is actually a Vet. If he is I would have thought the BVA should be investigating.

 

[bovine]

I think it's your vet who should be listened to.
I think it's hugely unethical for a Vet to be handing out random advice on this forum. I'd actually go as far as to question whether @bovine is actually a Vet. If he is I would have thought the BVA should be investigating.

LOL

1. I don't care whether you believe if I am a vet or a keyboard warrior.
2. What interest do you think the vet union would have in this?

 

[coomoo]

Used effydral since for ever and had limited success. Hear people getting good results with gel products as suggested aswell by @bovine few pages back. Anybody care to name products and routine i.e. tube along with milk, mix with milk or feed middle of day on top of twice daily feeds?

 

[Clay52]

I think it's your vet who should be listened to.
I think it's hugely unethical for a Vet to be handing out random advice on this forum. I'd actually go as far as to question whether @bovine is actually a Vet. If he is I would have thought the BVA should be investigating.

I don't always agree with everything ( I agree with the bulk of it) that bovine says but I respect his advise. What you are saying is quite odd. What's a vet going to gain by posting here.

Unethical. What about all the misinformation posted here by people uneducated on vetinary medicine.

 

[bovine]

The two I have used are Rehydion and Gel-Lyte Plus. I buy whichever I can get the cheapest. I've not seen any difference in clinical response.

When Rehydion was launched I did some work on a couple of farms using weigh tapes and seeing the calves continue to grow when scouring convinced me. You do need to accept they will scour for longer, but it doesn't actually matter. The presence of milk in the gut is beneficial to the health of the gut.

Badly scouring calves need additional electrolytes mid day or in the evening - 2 hours away from a milk feed. Some of these calves need a lot of fluid.

 

[coomoo]

The two I have used are Rehydion and Gel-Lyte Plus. I buy whichever I can get the cheapest. I've not seen any difference in clinical response.

When Rehydion was launched I did some work on a couple of farms using weigh tapes and seeing the calves continue to grow when scouring convinced me. You do need to accept they will scour for longer, but it doesn't actually matter. The presence of milk in the gut is beneficial to the health of the gut.

Badly scouring calves need additional electrolytes mid day or in the evening - 2 hours away from a milk feed. Some of these calves need a lot of fluid.

That's where we've been having problems I'd say just loading caves up extra twice a day. Those products sound familiar will pick some some up. Should add here it's the aspect that father takes on for the dairy calf rearing so we're just starting diff thinking.

 

[RastaBoy]

I don't always agree with everything ( I agree with the bulk of it) that bovine says but I respect his advise. What you are saying is quite odd. What's a vet going to gain by posting here.

Unethical. What about all the misinformation posted here by people uneducated on vetinary medicine.

Exactly "what's a Vet got to gain by posting on here ". Nothing I'd say that's why there's only possibly one.

True much misinformation posted but someone posing as a Vet. Might possibly be a Vet. All the Vets I know get full facts before dishing out advice and certainly wouldn't be handing out half baked advice on here with no certain knowledge of the farm/farmer.

 

[jade35]

Exactly "what's a Vet got to gain by posting on here ". Nothing I'd say that's why there's only possibly one.

True much misinformation posted but someone posing as a Vet. Might possibly be a Vet. All the Vets I know get full facts before dishing out advice and certainly wouldn't be handing out half baked advice on here with no certain knowledge of the farm/farmer.

Perhaps this is a parallel universe and TFF is the modern day version of The Archers and DEFRA are still trying to educate the farming masses by stealth. Bovine is obviously the poor chap given the job of trying to impart veterinary knowledge to the ungrateful livestock keepers, Clive is overseeing the advancement of overwintering livestock as the new holy grail for all arable units and cowabunga has responsibility for all other sections that need specialist advice

Personally, I see nothing wrong with bovine offering 'measured' advice to members who have asked veterinary questions, although he can be a little more direct than Greysides (sp) was on the old BFF, his comments may not always be sugar coated but they are generally thought provoking and if they give someone the confidence to talk to their own vet or call in the vet sooner then so much the better for stock and farmer.

 

[RastaBoy]

Perhaps this is a parallel universe and TFF is the modern day version of The Archers and DEFRA are still trying to educate the farming masses by stealth. Bovine is obviously the poor chap given the job of trying to impart veterinary knowledge to the ungrateful livestock keepers, Clive is overseeing the advancement of overwintering livestock as the new holy grail for all arable units and cowabunga has responsibility for all other sections that need specialist advice

Personally, I see nothing wrong with bovine offering 'measured' advice to members who have asked veterinary questions, although he can be a little more direct than Greysides (sp) was on the old BFF, his comments may not always be sugar coated but they are generally thought provoking and if they give someone the confidence to talk to their own vet or call in the vet sooner then so much the better for stock and farmer.

I don't see how you can compare the three posters. Clive is to my mind a genius who is contributing tried and tested hands on experience. He is posting his opinion which I for one value.
Cowabunga well he's Cowabunga the resident know it all.
Bovine is supposedly a professional who is supposedly a member of the Statutory body for vets. I'd suggest they'd be appalled at him diagnosing on here.

 

[Princess Pooper]

I don't see how you can compare the three posters. Clive is to my mind a genius who is contributing tried and tested hands on experience. He is posting his opinion which I for one value.
Cowabunga well he's Cowabunga the resident know it all.
Bovine is supposedly a professional who is supposedly a member of the Statutory body for vets. I'd suggest they'd be appalled at him diagnosing on here.

I don't normally get involved with petty vindictive posts but Bovine's advice is greatly valued by myself and many others. 'Talk to your vet' 'ask your vet to get some blood tests/stool samples' etc etc he recommends many many times, he is not 'diagnosing'.

You've made it clear that you do not approve/like his input - fine you are entitled to your opinion - and cast slurs on his professionalism which is completely below the belt. Many many farmers and I include myself in this do not talk to their vet often enough and as a result, animal welfare inevitably suffers at times (and our bottom lines). Bovine is providing advice for free and his input would be greatly missed when often it is the blind leading the blind, so please don't drive him away with petty and personal comments.

 

[RastaBoy]

I don't normally get involved with petty vindictive posts but Bovine's advice is greatly valued by myself and many others. 'Talk to your vet' 'ask your vet to get some blood tests/stool samples' etc etc he recommends many many times, he is not 'diagnosing'.

You've made it clear that you do not approve/like his input - fine you are entitled to your opinion - and cast slurs on his professionalism which is completely below the belt. Many many farmers and I include myself in this do not talk to their vet often enough and as a result, animal welfare inevitably suffers at times (and our bottom lines). Bovine is providing advice for free and his input would be greatly missed when often it is the blind leading the blind, so please don't drive him away with petty and personal comments.

You have just proved my point !
If having a contributor on this forum facilitates farmers not talking to their vet and "as a result animal welfare suffers" I need say no more.
Your post is very honest but please do not put your animals welfare at risk because of an anonymous poster on a public forum. Animal welfare must always be paramount. Things are tight but at the point animals suffer it is time to get out.

 

[Princess Pooper]

No it doesn't prove your point. Even as someone who has worked with cattle for 30 years and has a relatively high health herd I often have little queries that I do not bother the vet with and every honest farmer would say the same. Bovine helps with a lot of those in his comments to others. Of course I phone./email/ call my vet out but hand on heart who can say they ask their vet EVERY time they have the slightest query?

 

[jade35]

I don't normally get involved with petty vindictive posts but Bovine's advice is greatly valued by myself and many others. 'Talk to your vet' 'ask your vet to get some blood tests/stool samples' etc etc he recommends many many times, he is not 'diagnosing'.

You've made it clear that you do not approve/like his input - fine you are entitled to your opinion - and cast slurs on his professionalism which is completely below the belt. Many many farmers and I include myself in this do not talk to their vet often enough and as a result, animal welfare inevitably suffers at times (and our bottom lines). Bovine is providing advice for free and his input would be greatly missed when often it is the blind leading the blind, so please don't drive him away with petty and personal comments.

Well said PP, We have regular vet visits but because the cost is just under £120/hour it does concentrate the mind on what you discuss with the vet and sometimes little niggles will get missed and they can sometimes add up to a bigger problem. I have learnt a lot from this forum and bovine's posts have been very useful and informative with the emphasis on animal welfare at all times. His posts may not always meet universal approval but they are the view of someone from the veterinary profession and are similar to our vets. Sometimes the truth is unpalatable but it has to be spoken.

Having just read your last post RastaBoy, I don't think you have read many of PP's posts, animal welfare and farm biosecurity are subjects she cares passionately about and are reflected in her posts. Her concerns about buying in quality replacement stock after the TB breakdown and the difficulty in sourcing high herd health status dairy cattle from the UK were thought provoking.

If you find bovine's posts are not to your taste there is always the ignore button.