Sewage treatment plant discharge

[kelvace]

Good morning. I'm looking for some advice regarding a domestic sewage treatment plant discharge. Basically, my situation is as follows:

• I currently have a septic tank that discharges into a soakaway under a neighbour's garden. It's fine for the moment, but old, and at some point will probably need replacing.
• I'm thinking now about how a sewage treatment plant could be installed in the future. My main issue is the discharge, as I'm not sure a soakaway will be appropriate given modern standards.
• I have a number of options. The easiest one is to try and discharge to one of a number of ditches that is close to my house, adjoining farmland (basically between fields and a small country road). I'm assuming that the local farmer owns the ditches.

Before I approach the farmer, I just wanted to get an idea from the people on this forum about what their concerns may be, how open they would be if it was their ditch, and see whether anybody has any idea about how much of a payment a farmer might want to allow this. I basically have no idea about any of this at this point.

Any views or experience would be really appreciated.

Thanks

 

[linga]

As far as I am aware a properly constructed soakaway from a septic tank or a sewage treatment plant is allowable.
Discharge from a treatment plant into a ditch is fine but the ditch must be wet ( ie carry flowing water) Discharge from a septic tank into a ditch is not allowed
I could be wrong though !

 

[kelvace]

Thanks @linga. For various reasons, discharging into a ditch is prefereable to me than using a soakaway. The ditches near my house are appropriate for a sewage treatment discharge.

Suppose my question is more about how farmers generally view such requests, as owners of these ditches. What are their concerns? And from peoples' experience, what a farmer may want to allow this.
Thanks again

 

[Nearly]

Would the farmer in question let you pee down their leg?

 

[teslacoils]

You may find the farmer not willing to allow it. Please prepare yourself for this response. The main objection is simply the idea that "surely it doesn't inconvenience you at all, Mr farmer".

As you currently go to a soakaway, the question is 1) why not use one for the stp sited on your own property, 2) you could have a tank that gets emptied when full, 3) are you prepared to pay for the privilege of using the ditch?

In my mind, the ditch makes sense. Legal work will be required. I'd expect to be prepared to pay the farmer half the cost of the soakaway option; all his reasonable legal costs; and ensure you carry the required insurances etc.

You may think it's a ballache paying the £££, but it benefits you both to do it right. The main reason a farmer would deny you the right if if they thought you were ignorant of their knowledge of the cost of sioakaways etc.

 

[kelvace]

Thanks for the reply, @teslacoils. My main issue is one of space and ground conditions. This would make a replacement soakaway difficult. And I'm not going into this thinking that the farmer will agree to this without any form of compensation. I just want to understand, from farmers (hence posting here), what other concerns the farmer may have.

 

[kelvace]

Would the farmer in question let you pee down their leg?

Suppose that depends on the farmer! Not really my thing though...

 

[kelvace]

But thinking about it, @Nearly, if it made the cost of discharging into the ditch more reasonable, then ... But in all honesty, I'd rather go the more 'above-board' route before I resort to that kind of thing.

 

[Richy12]

Building a soakaway isn't that much work...

Trench sheets, frame, pcc perforated rings, teramm, shingle backfill... Robert's your father's brother!

 

[teslacoils]

Okay my concerns would be:

How can I be sure they will maintain their stp?

Will their insurance cover any problems?

I'll feel bound to agree the same thing with other neighbours in the same situation - some of who I may not like.

The last one is the kicker. Imagine you have three neighbours and one is a total "see you next Thursday" who's spent their life since early retirement from a London civil service job complaining about your farm. You put your stp in fine. Then they want it too. Then they start whining that it's unfair. It's all over Facebook. Then they start spreading all sorts of gossip.

As you have a soakaway, albeit not ideally located, I'd find it hard to say ground conditions aren't suitable. In any case, depending on the stp you may require a certain distance of perforated pipe as essentially a soakaway before discharge to the ditch. Maybe not with a fancy disc klargester but then they are not, in my opinion, a solid choice.

Never, never start the conversation "I'd like xyz". Try, my sewage system is nearly at the end of its life. I'm looking at some options, and I wondered if you would consider allowing the final discharge to go into your ditch?" Then stop speaking. There will be a pause, most likely, unless you've annoyed them in a previous life. Only after a suitably long pause can you add "it's only one option, and we understand you'll have to think about it but if you could let me know your thoughts in a little while it would be much appreciated."

 

[kelvace]

Building a soakaway isn't that much work...

Trench sheets, frame, pcc perforated rings, teramm, shingle backfill... Robert's your father's brother!

That is true. In a previous life, I did a lot of groundwork. I was a lot younger, fitter, and generally better put together back then. The passage of time is cruel.

For me at this stage, the ditch discharge is a preference because despite the £££ I would have to pay the farmer (again, just want to emphasize that I am in no way expecting it for free), it is an easier and more permanent solution, IMO.

 

[teslacoils]

It is the better option.

 

[kelvace]

Okay my concerns would be:

How can I be sure they will maintain their stp?

Will their insurance cover any problems?

I'll feel bound to agree the same thing with other neighbours in the same situation - some of who I may not like.

The last one is the kicker. Imagine you have three neighbours and one is a total "see you next Thursday" who's spent their life since early retirement from a London civil service job complaining about your farm. You put your stp in fine. Then they want it too. Then they start whining that it's unfair. It's all over Facebook. Then they start spreading all sorts of gossip.

As you have a soakaway, albeit not ideally located, I'd find it hard to say ground conditions aren't suitable. In any case, depending on the stp you may require a certain distance of perforated pipe as essentially a soakaway before discharge to the ditch. Maybe not with a fancy disc klargester but then they are not, in my opinion, a solid choice.

Never, never start the conversation "I'd like xyz". Try, my sewage system is nearly at the end of its life. I'm looking at some options, and I wondered if you would consider allowing the final discharge to go into your ditch?" Then stop speaking. There will be a pause, most likely, unless you've annoyed them in a previous life. Only after a suitably long pause can you add "it's only one option, and we understand you'll have to think about it but if you could let me know your thoughts in a little while it would be much appreciated."

@teslacoils Thanks again for all the useful comments.

I don't think the neighbour thing is an issue because there are not many houses around here, and they either (a) have enough land to have soakaway, or (b) have direct discharge to their own ditches. I don't get the sense there are many 'complainers', and we personally love the farm (even when their cows escaped into our garden and one tap-danced on our car - I was happy to try and buff-out the dent, which unsurprisingly didn't work! I'm of the view that where these things happen, let them go and have a sense of humour given we all are part of the community).

I totally agree that a soakaway should still work. The one there now has been there since the 1970s and is (touch-wood) still working fine. We do really look after the septic tank, as did the previous owners. Problem is, EA and building control may not see it that way.

Take your point on maintenance and insurance, and if I was in the farmer's position, that would be my concern. I would hope though, with an appropriate legal agreement that outlined my liabilities and obligations, that could be dealt with.

Thanks again for the really useful and pragmatic comments. Much appreciated!

 

[teslacoils]

Np. Your / farmers solicitor will have an appropriate easement to protect both parties. Think youve covered all the what is now. Good luck!

 

[Lincsman]

@teslacoils Thanks again for all the useful comments.

I don't think the neighbour thing is an issue because there are not many houses around here, and they either (a) have enough land to have soakaway, or (b) have direct discharge to their own ditches. I don't get the sense there are many 'complainers', and we personally love the farm (even when their cows escaped into our garden and one tap-danced on our car - I was happy to try and buff-out the dent, which unsurprisingly didn't work! I'm of the view that where these things happen, let them go and have a sense of humour given we all are part of the community).

I totally agree that a soakaway should still work. The one there now has been there since the 1970s and is (touch-wood) still working fine. We do really look after the septic tank, as did the previous owners. Problem is, EA and building control may not see it that way.

Take your point on maintenance and insurance, and if I was in the farmer's position, that would be my concern. I would hope though, with an appropriate legal agreement that outlined my liabilities and obligations, that could be dealt with.

Thanks again for the really useful and pragmatic comments. Much appreciated!

Its all working fine and legal... do nothing until you have a problem.

 

[harrow]

The other problem I can see is if you cause pollution to the farmers ditch.

 

[br jones]

Unless the ditch is permantly flowing ,if not its illeagal to put a diacharge into it ,you will have to get a license from the EA for dischargeing into a water course,personally i would say its your problem deal with it on your ground ,there are many options now with soakaway crates ets

 

[kelvace]

Its all working fine and legal... do nothing until you have a problem.

I agree. But I'm just trying to get a bit prepared, as the soakaways don't last forever.

 

[kelvace]

The other problem I can see is if you cause pollution to the farmers ditch.

Again, totally agree. But with appropriate easements (outlining things like maintenance requirements, what happens if the ditch gets polluted, etc) then it could work.

 

[kelvace]

Unless the ditch is permantly flowing ,if not its illeagal to put a diacharge into it ,you will have to get a license from the EA for dischargeing into a water course,personally i would say its your problem deal with it on your ground ,there are many options now with soakaway crates ets

Looking at the ditch, I think it would meet the requirements. And whilst it is my problem, it's not necessarily my problem to deal with on my land if I can come to an agreement with another landowner to discharge via their property. As I said above, I currently discharge to a soakaway under a neighbour's garden, so there is nothing to stop discharges via land not part of my property if the other party agrees to it. But I appreciate your comment, @br jones.