Sfi/elms

[ajd132]

It can.

Minimal expenditure, just take the subs.... sorry, Grant funding, and have an alternative income stream from an outside job. All depends on teh land and location.

Keep the land in a suitable state to farm again when sanity prevails once more.

But there is nothing in SFI telling you to stop farming, it just wants you to do certain things within a cropping system.

 

[delilah]

The man is rolling in it.... and even got sheep with handlebars!!

They're not handlebars. These are handlebars .

 

[steveR]

But there is nothing in SFI telling you to stop farming, it just wants you to do certain things within a cropping system.

Totally agree, but it is an option.... for some.

 

[ajd132]

Totally agree, but it is an option.... for some.

There’s nothing in cross compliance that says you need to grow crops for BPS either but farmers still do it

 

[Two Tone]

But a nice sub for buying teh drills ATM!

I wonder why?
…….could it be because it is seen as having an “Environmental” benefit and is “Sustainable”?

Not that other systems aren’t. But clearly the powers that be seem to think so and are already providing an extra insensitive to encourage this system, before ELMS and SFI have officially started and while we still have BPS, albeit at reducing levels.

It is certainly one hell of an incentive to try it and perfect the system to make it work, before the savings it creates become necessary to be able to stay profitable.

If I didn't already have a tenner on it with @neilo I would be having a wager with you. There wont be a sub for DD. There is no public good in doing so.

Rubbish!
How can there be no Public good when it it clearly shows enormous Environmental benefits for their long term survival?

Clearly you just do not want to recognise this. Thank goodness others are not Luddite or stupid enough to at least want to find out more about it, rather than just dismiss the idea because it doesn’t fit your agenda.

 

[Dave645]

Tough isn't it? Why should you be able to pass millions down to your children when someone who's worked all their life and created value for their family loses it to the tax man?

It’s not that simple, if I pass on a farm to my children and they farm it they, don’t pay inheritance tax if things are done correctly, at that point, but the moment they decide to sell it they get taxed to the eyeballs.
I would also say if a farm was a business like millions of others not a family business run via a partnership say, they also would be taxed at zero on business assets, as it passes from one generation to the other, farmers are treated just like any other business in the uk. The fact that a lot of farms are not run like a coffee shop or other business is ignored and is really the only extra dispensation farming gets, the majority of a family farms assents sit inside the business structure, land, yards, machinery, stock, and the farm house, if the owner still lives in it. if there is money held outside of the business like multiple houses private assets etc these are not exempt, they are taxed like any other citizen in the uk.

so my advice to you is run a business with millions of pounds of assets on the books and your money is also safe from IHT after 2 years, you don’t have to be a farmer to get tax relief, but it cannot be sat in a bank account or property. Unless that property is in the hotel business.

 

[ajd132]

I wonder why?
…….could it be because it is seen as having an “Environmental” benefit and is “Sustainable”?

Not that other systems aren’t. But clearly the powers that be seem to think so and are already providing an extra insensitive to encourage this system, before ELMS and SFI have officially started and while we still have BPS, albeit at reducing levels.

It is certainly one hell of an incentive to try it and perfect the system to make it work, before the savings it creates become necessary to be able to stay profitable.

Rubbish!
How can there be no Public good when it it clearly shows enormous Environmental benefits for their long term survival?

Clearly you just do not want to recognise this. Thank goodness others are not Luddite or stupid enough to at least want to find out more about it, rather than just dismiss the idea because it doesn’t fit your agenda.

Don’t bother.
Many just want things as similar before as possible. Maximum money for doing nothing.

 

[delilah]

Rubbish!
How can there be no Public good when it it clearly shows enormous Environmental benefits for their long term survival?

Clearly you just do not want to recognise this. Thank goodness others are not Luddite or stupid enough to at least want to find out more about it, rather than just dismiss the idea because it doesn’t fit your agenda.

What offers enormous environmental benefits for our long term survival is for every farmer to develop the best farming system for their individual farm, independent from undue influence by 'one size fits all' Government policies.

Don’t bother.
Many just want things as similar before as possible. Maximum money for doing nothing.

For sure, those who just want 'BPS mark 2' are wasting their breath, mainly because for political reasons ELMS is obliged to look radically different.

 

[midlandslad]

It’s not that simple, if I pass on a farm to my children and they farm it they, don’t pay inheritance tax if things are done correctly, at that point, but the moment they decide to sell it they get taxed to the eyeballs.
I would also say if a farm was a business like millions of others not a family business run via a partnership say, they also would be taxed at zero on business assets, as it passes from one generation to the other, farmers are treated just like any other business in the uk. The fact that a lot of farms are not run like a coffee shop or other business is ignored and is really the only extra dispensation farming gets, the majority of a family farms assents sit inside the business structure, land, yards, machinery, stock, and the farm house, if the owner still lives in it. if there is money held outside of the business like multiple houses private assets etc these are not exempt, they are taxed like any other citizen in the uk.

so my advice to you is run a business with millions of pounds of assets on the books and your money is also safe from IHT after 2 years, you don’t have to be a farmer to get tax relief, but it cannot be sat in a bank account or property. Unless that property is in the hotel business.

If the farm was sold on your death there would be no tax to pay.

 

[delilah]

Thank goodness others are not Luddite or stupid enough to at least want to find out more about it,

OK, you are right, i'm Luddite and stupid, help me change my ways.
A question:
Mixed farm (cattle and arable) stocking rate around 1LSU/ Ha. Wanting to explore DD, but wish to retain the ability to establish crops via ploughing.
What would you say is the minimum acreage of cereals you need to be growing, in order to justify owning and maintaining sufficient machinery for both systems ? Over, lets say, the next 10 years.

 

[ajd132]

OK, you are right, i'm Luddite and stupid, help me change my ways.
A question:
Mixed farm (cattle and arable) stocking rate around 1LSU/ Ha. Wanting to explore DD, but wish to retain the ability to establish crops via ploughing.
What would you say is the minimum acreage of cereals you need to be growing, in order to justify owning and maintaining sufficient machinery for both systems ? Over, lets say, the next 10 years.

Considering most direct drills go into ploughed ground, you can get a grant and small versions of things like sim techs are very cheap I don’t think it’s really an issue. They also need much less hp than cultivator or power harrow drills. You are looking for negatives where there aren’t any.

 

[delilah]

Considering most direct drills go into ploughed ground, you can get a grant and small versions of things like sim techs are very cheap I don’t think it’s really an issue. They also need much less hp than cultivator or power harrow drills. You are looking for negatives where there aren’t any.

So any acreage then, there isn't a minimum below which it isn't economic to both plough and DD ? What sort of money are we looking at re the drill, and what % could be grant ?

 

[No wot]

All depends on your view of "cheap" , if you're farming big acres , and your new 12 meter drill cost you 150k , a basic Simtec @30k is cheap to you , but not necessarily cheap to a mixed livestock farm of say 150/ ha

 

[farmerm]

Why should you be able to do that? My family aren't from farming stock and own a townhouse, they'll have to pay tax on it when it's passed to me. Why do you not get to do that? And on top of that you want an annual subsidy to prop up your lifestyle.

Will you? Just how much is that townhouse worth? Your second parent to pass away can be sitting on an estate valued up to £1million before there would be any IHT to be paid on their townhouse.... The Socalist outlook is about wanting all to be equal, providing that means equal or less than me... it rapidly loosing appeal when rather than looking up with green eyes ones looks down to those below.. how do you suppose someone with no family home or any assets to inherit views the fact that you may stand to inherit up to £1million from your parents without an inheritance tax? I am sure none of us want an annual subsidy but neither are consumers willing to pay sufficiently at the till for domestically produced food.

 

[serf]

Looks like we're in the money then, all we've got is a 390 and a dog .

View attachment 1006938

View attachment 1006939

Nice motor

 

[Wombat]

The direct drill we built and have no issues with it but it was a chunk more than we had spent on our previous discs and drill system. The results are similar and I think longer term it will have plus points and defo Don’t regret it at all but on small areas second hand normal stuff is very cheap.

 

[Against_the_grain]

But there is nothing in SFI telling you to stop farming, it just wants you to do certain things within a cropping system.

The problem is that to fit in with Sfi and claim the £130/ha we will likely have to compromise on yield and reliability of yield, by changing farming systems which is going to cost more that £130/ha or just 600kg/ha yield at todays prices. A safer bet would be to continue with current systems which have been fine tuned for generations adapted to individual farms and are far more resilient

 

[ajd132]

The problem is that to fit in with Sfi and claim the £130/ha we will likely have to compromise on yield and reliability of yield, by changing farming systems which is going to cost more that £130/ha or just 600kg/ha yield at todays prices. A safer bet would be to continue with current systems which have been fine tuned for generations adapted to individual farms and are far more resilient

Why should there be a yield drop?

 

[ajd132]

The problem is that to fit in with Sfi and claim the £130/ha we will likely have to compromise on yield and reliability of yield, by changing farming systems which is going to cost more that £130/ha or just 600kg/ha yield at todays prices. A safer bet would be to continue with current systems which have been fine tuned for generations adapted to individual farms and are far more resilient

Also if current sustems that have been fine tuned for generations are so good surely the industry doesn’t need any kind of subsidy anyway?

 

[delilah]

Also if current sustems that have been fine tuned for generations are so good surely the industry doesn’t need any kind of subsidy anyway?

It's not a subsidy, it's a payment for public good. The question is, where is the public good in interfering with those fine tuned systems developed to best suit an individual farm ?

All depends on your view of "cheap" , if you're farming big acres , and your new 12 meter drill cost you 150k , a basic Simtec @30k is cheap to you , but not necessarily cheap to a mixed livestock farm of say 150/ ha

Yes, I would say that this is the point. Even if there was justification in owning sufficient kit to be able to employ either DD or ploughing, there can be no doubt that the bigger the farm the lower the £/acre of owning that kit.

Is it Government policy to use ELMS to discriminate in favour of larger units ?
@Janet Hughes Defra
Because if it isn't, then that is another reason not to sub DD.