Shower Dipping and Golden Fleece

[TripleSix]

We've always used golden fleece in our shower dipper, despite it being an off label use.
Its the most effective product.


However there seems to be a big crackdown at the moment on sales of GF for shower dips.

Can anyone recommend what is effective or what we should be using instead?

I can't seem to find any information anywhere.

 

[D.S.S18]

we had a conversation about this earlier in the week.

if you shower its not effective against scab - there is a chance you wouldn't get treatment within the ear - so you'd be wasting your time, also it recommends 60 seconds in a dip pool with the head put under twice.

probably hence there is a big crack down at the moment.

 

[TripleSix]

I'm not fussed about scab control, even though we've cured scab with the shower before, it was more when we're on strike prevention.

 

[Norfolk Hill Farmer]

Looked at the electro dip dipping race at our local show , thought it was a good idea but the salesman couldn't or wouldn't, tell me what products I could "legally " put through it. I'm guessing there are none.
Pity as I would really like to make the huge savings that would Come with using less pour on products.
Sorry if that's not much help.

 

[The sheep dipper man]

The simple answer is there arnt any licenced products available to put through anything apart from a plung dipper , anything used in a shower or jetter is illegal as they arnt licenced and they are now really coming down on people who use these machines and products combined, hope that helps with your question.

We've always used golden fleece in our shower dipper, despite it being an off label use.
Its the most effective product.


However there seems to be a big crackdown at the moment on sales of GF for shower dips.

Can anyone recommend what is effective or what we should be using instead?

I can't seem to find any information anywhere.

 

[Agrivator]

Who knows what sort of dipper you've got?

The welfare of lambs must take priority over a seemingly senseless law. Unless it can be shown that using GF in a shower dipper is much less environmentally damaging than using it in a plunge dipper.

 

[The sheep dipper man]

Who knows what sort of dipper you've got?

The welfare of lambs must take priority over a seemingly senseless law. Unless it can be shown that using GF in a shower dipper is much less environmentally damaging than using it in a plunge dipper.

Its not just the environmental side of it, it is also the chance of building resistance to the product due to no test being done to see the legal threshold amounts needs to treat scab in a shower or jetter. The company's have not tested it in any other machine so that is why they say it cant be used in it.

 

[D.S.S18]

it depends on the shower too - its recommend that the finer vapour - more chance of breathing it in.

the only way you could get gold fleece through a shower if via a vet prescription - otherwise a gnarl merchant shouldn't sell it to you.

 

[hally]

My brother worked on dip,development for Coopers many years ago. They were keen to license dips for showers for the potential market that was available but failed every time to prove to the regulators that it was effective against scab when put through a shower. One trial they did was memorable in that they put a orange dye in a dipper and through a shower then clipped the sheep later. The dipped sheep were orange to the skin whereas the showered sheep were still completely white, consequently we bought a mobile dipper and still think our sheep benefit from being dipped every year even though it is quite unfashionable to do this nowadays with the rise in popularity of injectables.

 

[TripleSix]

Sheep always do really well after being treated with an OP dip.

Half the reason why we shower ours rather than pour ons

 

[Norfolk Hill Farmer]

Getting back to my previous post, although I am completely on board with what previous posters have put about resistance and safety, the cost of Click type products is roughly £1 head and has no effect on ticks and lice, against roughly 20 or 30p to shower them. The savings are considerable. If only someone could come up with an ethical way of doing it

 

[neilo]

Getting back to my previous post, although I am completely on board with what previous posters have put about resistance and safety, the cost of Click type products is roughly £1 head and has no effect on ticks and lice, against roughly 20 or 30p to shower them. The savings are considerable. If only someone could come up with an ethical way of doing it

I used to have a friend in to run my sheep through his Electrodip using OP. It is fast, easy and effective, although I was standing at the back of the mobile yard working the dogs and he was the one getting doused in dip every time one stopped in it.
The only reason I stopped using it, was that the blowfly cover from the OP dip seemed to last less time (as formulations changed?), so it was only keeping maggots off for 6-7 weeks. If you have to run them through 3 times in a season, versus one dose of Clik, it's suddenly not much cheaper, not forgetting the considerable capital expense if you are buying a jetter.

I have no issues with the efficacy of application, as it was applied to the point of running off, so no more dip could have been applied by any other method, but I do understand that it might not clear scab as it might not get in the ears and it only takes one mite to survive....

 

[Al R]

Sheep always do really well after being treated with an OP dip.

Half the reason why we shower ours rather than pour ons

Something I’ve read about and something that was a problem when we last dipped was dip lameness and erysipelas occurring in large numbers. Is this still a problem with the new formulation’s and is it still a problem with mobile dippers? @The sheep dipper man

 

[The sheep dipper man]

Something I’ve read about and something that was a problem when we last dipped was dip lameness and erysipelas occurring in large numbers. Is this still a problem with the new formulation’s and is it still a problem with mobile dippers? @The sheep dipper man

To respond to that one, i know what you mean,
However i have never had any problems the sheep getting dipping lameness or erysipelas post dipping. Dipping lameness is down to dirty dip baths and jobs not done correctly before and during the dipping operation!

I make sure the dip tub is cleaned right out and fresh clean water is always used at the start of every job to ulimante these problems occurring.

 

[The sheep dipper man]

Getting back to my previous post, although I am completely on board with what previous posters have put about resistance and safety, the cost of Click type products is roughly £1 head and has no effect on ticks and lice, against roughly 20 or 30p to shower them. The savings are considerable. If only someone could come up with an ethical way of doing it

Yes but if showering dosent get right down to the skin as has been tested, then surly you are just throwing that 30p away ?

 

[hally]

I used to have a friend in to run my sheep through his Electrodip using OP. It is fast, easy and effective, although I was standing at the back of the mobile yard working the dogs and he was the one getting doused in dip every time one stopped in it.
The only reason I stopped using it, was that the blowfly cover from the OP dip seemed to last less time (as formulations changed?), so it was only keeping maggots off for 6-7 weeks. If you have to run them through 3 times in a season, versus one dose of Clik, it's suddenly not much cheaper, not forgetting the considerable capital expense if you are buying a jetter.

I have no issues with the efficacy of application, as it was applied to the point of running off, so no more dip could have been applied by any other method, but I do understand that it might not clear scab as it might not get in the ears and it only takes one mite to survive....

The dip running off a fleece is considerably different to getting down to the base of the fleece. I remember they studied trial results from Oz and the UK and on no occasion could they find a shower that had 100% penetration. They were keen to find a good result as it massively increased their market for a product already developed

 

[neilo]

The dip running off a fleece is considerably different to getting down to the base of the fleece. I remember they studied trial results from Oz and the UK and on no occasion could they find a shower that had 100% penetration. They were keen to find a good result as it massively increased their market for a product already developed

The jetting races use high pressure jets, which certainly do penetrate the fleece IME. Showers are a different thing entirely, as they don’t use the same pressure, just apply a soaking from above (& a bit from below).

If I was confident of the OP giving lasting blowfly cover, i wouldn’t hesitate to use an Electrodip jetter again.

For scab however, dipping is the only way to apply OP with 100% effectiveness (if you don’t want to/can’t use injectables). I certainly don’t want to go back to the old days of swimming in the stuff though.

 

[The sheep dipper man]

The jetting races use high pressure jets, which certainly do penetrate the fleece IME. Showers are a different thing entirely, as they don’t use the same pressure, just apply a soaking from above (& a bit from below).

If I was confident of the OP giving lasting blowfly cover, i wouldn’t hesitate to use an Electrodip jetter again.

For scab however, dipping is the only way to apply OP with 100% effectiveness (if you don’t want to/can’t use injectables). I certainly don’t want to go back to the old days of swimming in the stuff though.

Dipping has moved on since then, you no longer get coverd in dip with the new technology in plunge dipping systems.

If you were allowed to put a OP product through a jetter i would imagine that it would be effective for fly control but that would be all. Definitely no good for scab! IME.

 

[hally]

The jetting races use high pressure jets, which certainly do penetrate the fleece IME. Showers are a different thing entirely, as they don’t use the same pressure, just apply a soaking from above (& a bit from below).

If I was confident of the OP giving lasting blowfly cover, i wouldn’t hesitate to use an Electrodip jetter again
For scab however, dipping is the only way to apply OP with 100% effectiveness (if you don’t want to/can’t use injectables). I certainly don’t want to go back to the old days of swimming in the stuff though.

Back in the day when discussing buying an electrodip with my brother he said if they could prove it effective against scab it would have been done. They were trying to protect the market for dip with the threat of injectables coming. The convenience of the electrodip and portability of the machine was a good selling point for most farmers, but without a product licence for the dip we decided to go with a dipper. The decline on dipping around here has happened and imo sheep health had declined because of it. Personally I hate the bloody job as well but still find it the best way to keep sheep clean.

 

[Al R]

Yet it’s amazing how machines such as the dip fast are allowed to be sold as its a shower?
https://dipfast.com/