Slugs (again)

[SorenIlsoe]

I have to say I agree fully with this. I want no til to work but am worried about failures. Every no til farm seems to have bad areas or fields but just says" oh I know why that's like that it won't happen again" and the next year something else goes wrong. The trouble is there is no slack in the system for crop failures. Yes there is less money spent on establishment with no til, but if it's a crop failure, it's a failure and will lose money. At the end of the day yield nearly always proves to be King. I am persevering and hope I'm wrong though.

So there has never been slug problems on plowed fields?

 

[Dan Powell]

So there has never been slug problems on plowed fields?

Don't be silly of course there are but on our farm and many others we have massively more problems with slugs under no till management than we did with ploughing.

 

[Tractor Boy]

So there has never been slug problems on plowed fields?

Yes lots, but I've never lost a wheat crop or whole patches of a crop to slugs under a plough system. So far with no til second wheats I have lost patches/strips 2 years in a row.

 

[Simon C]

Leaving volunteers to 4 leves counts as one more year growing OSR and increases risk of clubroot!
But maybe clubroot is less/no problem in notill because of higher microbe activity and then the disease will be reduced by competition?

Agree with this Soren, I think we can assume all soil born diseases are much less of a problem when we have enhanced biology due to no-till. The good stuff will out compete the bad. It's a long time since I have seen take-all in cereals but don't grow rape so can't say definitely regarding clubroot or sclerotinia.

 

[Crf450]

Being new to dd was wondering why everyone is removing oat straw, I chopped ours this year, for the first time as it wasn't required for stock, and note that the wheat following is poorest on farm but I put this down to delayed drilling and rain after dry spell activating pre em and post em together checking crop, had very little slug grazing.

 

[Breakthru]

My expectation was that as the stuff hit the slugs that they would virtually fall off the plant and be found laying dead after going through with the sprayer. I did not find this at all. In fact, I couldn't find a single dead slug.

Definitely a problem with your hard water. You will need to double up water conditioner.

 

[AgriAlice]

I have to admit I'm not a farmer myself, but I've been talking to a lot over the last few weeks as I'm doing a study on the increase in conservation agriculture recently. Quite a few farmers mentioned the increase of slugs after moving to direct drilling but the guys who had been doing if for longer apparently didn't have so much of a problem, they think it may be because of an increase in ground beetles and other insects that eat them. But then again I did meet a farmer who had been using direct drilling for over 10 years and still used a lot of slug pellets

 

[Breakthru]

Reference variable results in slug control with Breakthru foliar feed.
Confusion caused by some water companies adding softener others not.
This may explain why users who have been successful with Breakthru recommend it to others who then can't get it to work.
Up till recently we have only used citric acid however some of your water is very high in carb/bicarb and this seems to be locking up certain elements within the product. Glyphosate has a half life of 30mins and Pyrethroid 10 mins in this water.
We are now using/trialling a water conditioner/softener that is bright red when added to the water then like traffic lights goes to amber then to green when enough conditioner added.
Application rate ranges from 0.25ltr/1000ltr of spray up to 1.0ltr/1000ltr.
Price is from 20p-80p/ha at 100ltr/ha spray rate.
Like anything different it takes time and trial to work out what is happening.
It is very easy with my gardening clients, I dictate that they either use rainwater or Highland Spring bottled water from Tesco/Lidl/Home Bargains. This comes from granite rock and has lowest contaminants of all bottled waters.
I look forward to the feedback from those trialling the new conditioner.

 

[Louis Mc]

We used it with mains water and weee disappointed, what water were others using and how did it work for them?

 

[Breakthru]

We used it with mains water and weee disappointed, what water were others using and how did it work for them?

The further south you go some areas have more carb/bicarb content which seems to tie up some of the metal and sulphate constituents of Breakthru.
Scottish Borders our water ranges from 7.2 to 7.8 ph and but using citric acid works well.
North Lincs (Scunthorpe area) works well without any conditioner. Local water company adds softener? It was one of my original clients in this area who trialled pre harvest use on Osr and WW very successfully with reduced rates and no added conditioner.
Problem varies across the country by water quality so that is why we have changed to using a conditioner/softener. Very easy to use due to its water colouring properties however I will not know if it works in all areas until I get feedback from users.
The next useage time is in WW april/may (pre GS 39) when you can identify slugs up grazing the foliage. If sprayed at dusk you should see a relatively instant effect if the conditioner is working.

 

[Clive]

The further south you go some areas have more carb/bicarb content which seems to tie up some of the metal and sulphate constituents of Breakthru.
Scottish Borders our water ranges from 7.2 to 7.8 ph and but using citric acid works well.
North Lincs (Scunthorpe area) works well without any conditioner. Local water company adds softener? It was one of my original clients in this area who trialled pre harvest use on Osr and WW very successfully with reduced rates and no added conditioner.
Problem varies across the country by water quality so that is why we have changed to using a conditioner/softener. Very easy to use due to its water colouring properties however I will not know if it works in all areas until I get feedback from users.
The next useage time is in WW april/may (pre GS 39) when you can identify slugs up grazing the foliage. If sprayed at dusk you should see a relatively instant effect if the conditioner is working.

Sorry if it's been posted before but what is in it ?

Is it just AS ?

 

[Breakthru]

Sorry if it's been posted before but what is in it ?

Is it just AS ?

No it is a mixture of sulphates mang, cu, zinc, iron etc.
Contents are on my gardening site www.breakthruspray.co.uk.
Price in small packages is of course exorbitant but same stuff.

 

[Breakthru]

£100/10kg, 1kg/ha plus conditioner at 20-80p/ha.
Using down to 0.8kg successfully in "good" water areas but would like to think new conditioner will solve the problems some have been having.

 

[Clive]

No it is a mixture of sulphates mang, cu, zinc, iron etc.
Contents are on my gardening site www.breakthruspray.co.uk.
Price in small packages is of course exorbitant but same stuff.

So it's working along similar lines to my night time AS spraying then ? A contact product ?

 

[Luke Cropwalker]

I think some TFF members have tried it and the product has not worked, therefore the agent for said product is coming up with a bulls**t excuse for the product not working and is now suggesting a 'water conditioner' will have miraculous capabilities and all for the bargain price of £££££££££££££.

 

[colhonk]

I will certainly use it again this back end. The only failure I have had is where I used only slug pellets.

 

[Breakthru]

So it's working along similar lines to my night time AS spraying then ? A contact product ?

Has both contact action like AS but also once stuck to foliage deters grazing

 

[Breakthru]

I think some TFF members have tried it and the product has not worked, therefore the agent for said product is coming up with a bullpoo excuse for the product not working and is now suggesting a 'water conditioner' will have miraculous capabilities and all for the bargain price of £££££££££££££.

It works as the next post to yours says.
Stay with your Luddite view and keep feeding them and breeding them.
What I and the water expert I consulted with are trying to do is iron out some local difficulties.
Try telling my Lincs client that season long control for less than £9/ha is expensive BS where he took my product and used it in a novel way.
I hardly think 20-80p/ha to condition your water is some expensive add on.
Do not understand why you all don't harvest rainwater anyway.
I am trying to overcome the problems where you don't.

 

[Luke Cropwalker]

It works as the next post to yours says.
Stay with your Luddite view and keep feeding them and breeding them.
What I and the water expert I consulted with are trying to do is iron out some local difficulties.
Try telling my Lincs client that season long control for less than £9/ha is expensive BS where he took my product and used it in a novel way.
I hardly think 20-80p/ha to condition your water is some expensive add on.
Do not understand why you all don't harvest rainwater anyway.
I am trying to overcome the problems where you don't.

What I cannot understand is; if this product is so good then why are you struggling to sell it? If it really was so effective I think that one of the larger agchem or fertiliser producers would have either bought the company or at least copied the product. I have suggested previously that you ask NIAB TAG @Fromebridge to carry out trials but you rubbished my suggestion. A farming friend of mine near York has tried this product and found it ineffective. He is an excellent farmer and very progressive, I trust his view on this product more than any claims on this forum.
In the spirit of the debate then why did the product work for @colhonk and not others, is this purely down to water quality?
Please note @Breakthru there are no personal insults in my post and I would appreciate the same in return.

 

[Breakthru]

What I cannot understand is; if this product is so good then why are you struggling to sell it? If it really was so effective I think that one of the larger agchem or fertiliser producers would have either bought the company or at least copied the product. I have suggested previously that you ask NIAB TAG @Fromebridge to carry out trials but you rubbished my suggestion. A farming friend of mine near York has tried this product and found it ineffective. He is an excellent farmer and very progressive, I trust his view on this product more than any claims on this forum.
In the spirit of the debate then why did the product work for @colhonk and not others, is this purely down to water quality?
Please note @Breakthru there are no personal insults in my post and I would appreciate the same in return.

@colhonk used the original citric acid conditioner which with his water quality gave him the desired result.
It is only when you get to areas where there are very high carb/bicarb contents that there seems to be a lock up.
I have no problem selling it (metric tonnes of it).
I consulted with a "water expert"