So why are so many vaccinated people getting Covid?

[nails]

Because what the vaccine sceptics said would happen when these mRNA vaccines were announced is coming to pass. Its increasingly apparent that a) the mRNA vaccines do not protect against infection, indeed after a few months of protection they seem to increase the likelihood of it, and b) there is data beginning to come out that if you catch covid after double vaccination your body's immune response is not the same as when an unvaccinated person gets it. A vaccinated person who then gets covid appears to end up with a low N antibody response to the covid virus. This means that any future infections from mutations will affect you far worse, as your body doesn't have the full 'tool kit' to deal with the whole virus, its just 'learned' to deal with the virus via its spike protein (using S antibodies) that the vaccines produce in our bodies, but has low N (or nucleus) antibody response. When you catch and survive covid as an unvaccinated person you get full S and N antibody responses which then cover you for a far greater range of virus mutations.

This data comes from the latest UK Health Security Agency, see page 23 of this report:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1027511/Vaccine-surveillance-report-week-42.pdf

Quote: recent observations from UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA) surveillance data that N antibody levels appear to be lower in individuals who acquire infection following 2 doses of vaccination.

Think of it as having just one size of spanner to fix your machine, because it has all the same size nuts and bolts, so one size of spanner works fine. But if the manufacturer suddenly decides to change the size of some bolts then your one tool kit box won't fix the problem........

This is bad news for anyone who has taken the vaccine. It means that even if you catch covid after vaccination you will not then have the same immunity that a non-vaccinated person has post infection, and if the virus then mutates its spike protein a bit the next new variant could bypass your immune system entirely.

Seriously, if the N antibody response is as low in the vaccinated as the data suggest, this is VERY bad news.

Right o.k i see what you are doing here. You are confusing in-vitro results with in-vito .

Yes there is some evidence in vitro that vaccines can have some negitive immune effects, including ADE type effects. But as critics of these studies have pointed out in vitro doesn't behave similarly to in vivo and, as of yet, the evidence of the vaccines having any long term immune rewiring effects is small (though not zero). By contrast the evidence for COVID immune system rewiring is increasingly strong.



Regarding 'higher cases in the vaxxed'. Yes this is also true sometimes, but it is highly misleading. You need to understand something about the dynamics of the virus which are inherintly stochastic. I'll explain what I mean by this.



Let's compare two populations, the vaxxed and the unvaxxed and expose them to a random dose of COVID-19 every day.







Now the vax offers partial protection against infection but not full protection. So what this will cause is the unvaxxed population to initially have higher case rates. Those cases are then resolved with immunity in the vaxxed population increasing.



Meanwhile in the unvaxxed population it takes longer to seed infection and case rates are initially lower. Also vaxxed and unvaxxed tend to cluster together somewhat which exaserbates this effect.







Now the immunity of the unvaxxed population will increase faster than the unvaxxed population starting from a zero baseline, while the vaxxed population may even decline over time in a low case regime. Eventually case rates in the vaxxed overtake the unvaxxed.







So in other words due to a combination of seeding/stochastic effects, lag/clustering, and differential population immunity you would expect that unvaxxed populations have a higher case rate for time t1, and vaxxed for a time t2 where t2>t1. Which is exactly what we have seen. The fact there exists a time, t2, where case rates are higher in the vaxxed population is not even remotely surprising.







TLDR: Think of the autumn wave last year driven by young adults. Case rates were initially very high in young adults, but they dropped and then became higher in older adults. In the unvaxxed/vaxxed something similar happens. The better protection of the vaxxed means unvaxxed have an initial higher case rate, but the cororally of that is they must have a later lower case rate.

 

[nails]

'm married to a doctor and it has been clear to both of us since about 3 weeks into this that something is 'not right'? Meanwhile most of the UK is double innoculated and people are still catching CV19 and cases still rising? How is that even possible if the vaccine works as you were told?

The vaccine does not stop you catching Covid . It stops over 90% of positives getting seriously ill . Read my post to goweresque for the explanation .

 

[bobk]

I'm married to a doctor and it has been clear to both of us since about 3 weeks into this that something is 'not right'? Meanwhile most of the UK is double innoculated and people are still catching CV19 and cases still rising? How is that even possible if the vaccine works as you were told?

Infection rates in the UK are now higher (per 100,000) in the double-vaccinated compared to the unvaccinated by 124% in those in their 40s, 103% in those in their 50s and 60s and 101% in those in their 70s, corresponding to unadjusted vaccine effectiveness estimates of minus-124%, minus-103% and minus-101% respectively. For those over 80 the unadjusted vaccine effectiveness is minus-34% while for those in their 30s it is minus-27%.

This can be seen in the Governments own data published last week

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1027511/Vaccine-surveillance-report-week-42.pdf

Any effect the vaccine might have is clearly waning quite quickly but there are also some people starting to ask if it is also reducing the body's inate immune system and the UK Government seems to be confirming this in the above document (page 23)

"N antibody levels appear to be lower in people who acquire infection following two doses of vaccination"

View attachment 993727

Well that's a tad awkward. As there is not much science on this yet I won't post any more other than to say this is exactly why drugs normally have medium and long term testing before being licensed. Just a friendly reminder that these drugs are not licensed nor have they had medium or long term testing. We are in the middle of that exercise right now; most people don't realise that they are in one big trial and as yet we don't know the outcome.

All this for a disease that the Government has confirmed in a UK Palimentary answer on 27th August 2021 that the average chance of dying from the virus (if you catch it) that we stopped the world for, destroyed society and caused all sorts of collateral damage is 0.096% or rather the chance of surviving is a mere 99.904%

Written questions and answers - Written questions, answers and statements - UK Parliament

Information from UK Parliament on written questions & answers, written statements and daily reports.

questions-statements.parliament.uk

View attachment 993728


People need to wake up and realise that, just like the Enviromental agenda, that they are being played for the benefit of big Pharma and others.

Maybe your other half should post , cos I don't understand what you posted

 

[bobk]

The vaccine does not stop you catching Covid . It stops over 90% of positives getting seriously ill . Read my post to goweresque for the explanation .

Cases are largely irrelevant , yes the it affects the economy but the whole point of vaccination was to keep excess pressure off the NHS

 

[Guleesh]

Maybe your other half should post , cos I don't understand what you posted

If you're struggling to understand then maybe @nails has more Mr T memes he could share with you?

 

[ollie989898]

I’m not going to respond to any more thick comments such as these . The covid deaths were preventable by having mitigation’s such as masks and hepa filters in place before sending children back to school. All schools should have been told to implement ventilation and continue with bubbles . These deaths were preventable.

I'm not convinced that we can realistically prevent anyone from catching covid. Normal life has to resume. We can wear masks and filter air, we can shut schools. We can do a range of things but these are public health measures aimed at protecting society at large, they can't by design protect every individual.

I do not know if having the vaccine has any effect on whether the virus will trigger an excessive immune response in my body. I assume- but don't actually know- that I am relatively safe as I have no pre-existing conditions (as far as I know). I've accepted the vaccine, not just because I was working with vulnerable people but because I recognised working in a clinical environment actually made it much more likely I would come into contact with the virus and so being vaccinated would actually protect my family indirectly.

You won't get little kids to wear masks, believe me.

The crux of the matter is you need to consider what cost society will bear in order to protect every last individual. We could shut down society totally. We could pay people to sit at home. We could shut businesses, shut schools, shut shops. It would protect people but who is going to pay for it?

All these measures and the vaccine were only ever an attempt to stop the health services from being overwhelmed. Having to choose who lives and dies due to a lack of capacity would have been political dynamite. It is one thing for 200,000 people to pass away from a virus the NHS can't treat and quite another to have 200,000 people die because there weren't enough ventilators to go around. This is what I have said for months and from near the outset of this whole thing.

 

[BrianV]

Not harmless but not harmful enough to justify changes that have caused massive harm.
Excess deaths(not covid) running at 1600 a week.

Excess deaths could well be because hospitals are treating far too many idiotic unvaccinated fools having caught covid with little immunity instead of being able to treat real deserving patients unable to get hospital appointments.

 

[ollie989898]

I have no clue what N or S antibodies are. I'm only familiar with immunoglobulins which come in 5 varieties. A bit like TIE-fighters they have distinct shapes. IgG, IgM, IgE, IgA and IgD. It is the IgG protein 'pitchforks' that you will primarily find sloshing around in your blood and which do the bulk of this antibody stuff.


Higher rates of people being ill with the virus despite being vaccinated is probably because they know they are vaccinated and so take a lot less care with respect to trying to avoid being infected. I know I do. I will wear a mask on the bus but I've long since given up on alcohol gel and hand washing.

 

[bobk]

Another reason for high rates of covid is it encourages folk to get jabbed , Unlike france where it's virtually mandatory

 

[essex man]

Nah - Not that many yet, Just under 5 million according to todays cululative totals

- I'd just rather not screw my chances towards becoming another statistic so I will be getting my booster on Thursday.

Cases 244M 244,000,000 +403K +403,000

Deaths 4.95M 4,950,000 +6,546

That's positive tests, not total of people who have had covid

 

[nails]

You won't get little kids to wear masks, believe me.

French Kids comply, surprisingly

 

[Mouser]

I have no clue what N or S antibodies are. I'm only familiar with immunoglobulins which come in 5 varieties. A bit like TIE-fighters they have distinct shapes. IgG, IgM, IgE, IgA and IgD. It is the IgG protein 'pitchforks' that you will primarily find sloshing around in your blood and which do the bulk of this antibody stuff.


Higher rates of people being ill with the virus despite being vaccinated is probably because they know they are vaccinated and so take a lot less care with respect to trying to avoid being infected. I know I do. I will wear a mask on the bus but I've long since given up on alcohol gel and hand washing.

There are side effects from most, if not all medications, therapies and vaccines. Some of them are actually very serious. However, in healthcare there is always a risk vs benefit type decision to be made.

I wonder how people would approach the vaccine if the fatality rate from the virus was much higher, say 10%?

Vaccine uptake would be much higher I suspect. What would your thoughts be if fatality rate was 0.01%?

?

 

[Mouser]

French Kids comply, surprisingly
View attachment 993735

They aren't little!

 

[bobk]

French Kids comply, surprisingly
View attachment 993735

French have been totally compliant , odd really for them .

 

[nails]

They aren't little!

They are not big.

 

[essex man]

I’m not going to respond to any more thick comments such as these . The covid deaths were preventable by having mitigation’s such as masks and hepa filters in place before sending children back to school. All schools should have been told to implement ventilation and continue with bubbles . These deaths were preventable.

Do children only catch covid in school, not from family members at home?

 

[nails]

Do children only catch covid in school, not from family members at home?

Mostly yes at school.

 

[Mouser]

They are not big.

Obviously its subjective but I would call them big as kids go. Little would be 7/8 and under imo

 

[essex man]

Mostly yes at school.

So , no then

 

[Charlie Gill]

Mostly yes at school.

I'd change that to: mostly during school term. The crowds of them you see in or outside newsagents in the morning and chippies and fried chicken shops in the afternoon, you can see how it gets around.