So why are so many vaccinated people getting Covid?

[milkloss]

As I've said in other threads I'm not sure there's a need for my 9 and 7 year olds to get the current vaccine when/if it is cleared.

You think you're going to get a choice?

 

[Goweresque]

Weren't India using some off label drugs?

Yes, but we're not supposed to notice that........

 

[essex man]

that is a truly made up figure with absolutely no science behind it !

The figure is based on 4 million positive tests up to January, daily infection rate being consistently above 2 x positive test rate and a similar size untested first wave to the second.
It's one that I comfortable with but could easily be much higher, given we don't know when it started.

 

[Exfarmer]

The figure is based on 4 million positive tests up to January, daily infection rate being consistently above 2 x positive test rate and a similar size untested first wave to the second.
It's one that I comfortable with but could easily be much higher, given we don't know when it started.

1st January 2021 confirmed Uk cases 2,686,187

 

[le bon paysan]

I think its called Valneva. I was hoping that it would be passed for UK use soon, as I would be happy to take such a vaccine, my beef is not with vaccines per se, more the mRNA ones which are are highly experimental, and we are effectively doing clinical trials of them on the entire global population, which in my opinion is unconscionable.

Unfortunately for some reason the UK government has ended its contract for 100m doses of the Valneva vaccine, and its future is somewhat in the air. It may not even get UK approval. They were hoping to build a factory to make it in Livingston, Scotland. The conspiracy theorist in me wonders if thats because it could be far better (and safer) than than the mRNA ones and would make them look bad......

It is Valneva, it's going well. Here's an update

Covid: Valneva's vaccine already pre-ordered by the European Union

The European Union announced they have already pre-ordered doses of French Austrian Valneva's Covid vaccine, currently under rolling review by the European Medicines Agency. The vaccine has delivered "positive topline results" this past October.

www.sortiraparis.com

Edit @Goweresque beat me to it.

 

[essex man]

1st January 2021 confirmed Uk cases 2,686,187

Did I say 1st? How many people had vaccine acquired immunity on Jan 1st?

 

[nails]

It seems like a lot of people, because the world has a lot more people than it used to have, and a lot more old people as well. When the Hong Kong Flu hit in 1968/69 the population of the world was 3.6 billion and it killed between 1 and 4 million people globally (estimated). The population of the world is now 7.7bn, so more than double, and the average age of those people, especially in Western countries is far older, so there are far more people potentially at risk, as covid is a killer of old age, like the flu. Covid has currently killed about 5m globally (if you take the official stats as gospel) so adjusted for population alone then its slap bang in the same ball park as Hong Kong flu for mortality. Take into account the ageing global population and mortality might actually be lower than the Hong Kong flu.

The truth is, for all the fear propaganda we have been hosed with, covid is not that dangerous a disease, compared to other viral epidemics. Its nasty for sure, but not 'Oh my god we must move heaven and earth to stop it' nasty. We need a sense of perspective here. If we behave like this for a disease that objectively is not that bad, how are we ever going to cope when (and it will be when, not if) a disease with a REALLY bad mortality rate turns up? The CFR for SARS was c.15%, ie 5 times the current CFR for Covid. Not only that its CFR for the over 60s was 50%! Imagine that on a global scale ripping through elderly Western nations. Now that would be a reason to take extreme measures. But a nasty flu epidemic? Just forget about it and get on with life, we all have to die eventually, and no amount of vaccines are going to prevent our eventual demise.

I have theory that the extreme panic that covid has engendered (in Western populations at least ) is down to the fact that we no longer have a true sense of death. Death is hidden away from us for most of our lives, we don't have to face it until it becomes a very personal issue, in the broader public sphere death is not really ever discussed or considered. People just assume that they will live well into their 80s and thus anyone under the age of 60 won't really have contemplated their own mortality much, or come to terms with it psychologically. Covid has forced everyone to do that in a very short space of time - suddenly people who imagined they had decades of life left had to consider the possibility they could die next week. Thats a very heavy psychological blow to cope with, and I think this is the source of the panic. 50 years ago when Hong Kong flu hit people a) died younger anyway so death was an issue at far younger ages than today and b) they had just come through a World War that had killed tens of millions, so a few deaths from the flu wasn't going to faze them.

Covid is not flu and we still have flu to contend with as well. Covid affects the auto immune system and at this stage is not fully understood .Vaccinating is the only way this country had of reducing excess deaths. They are not perfect vaccines as were developed very quickly. If flu becomes rampant as well this winter the more vaccinated the better otherwise some areas are going to be in deep sh!t. The anti vaxers can hide in their rabbit holes but every day comes news of some anti having to eat humble pie or worse.

 

[crofteress]

To the poster on this thread who says children don’t suffer from covid , today the government announced the deaths of another two children with covid , one in the 0 to 4 age group and one 15 to 19 . No children should be dying from covid as it was entirely preventable using masks and hepa filters and ventilation in schools . 88 children in total now and many suffering long covid .

 

[lazy farmer]

I didn’t realise so many qualified doctors/ scientists inhabited this space.

 

[neilo]

I didn’t realise so many qualified doctors/ scientists inhabited this space.

I’m not sure that it’s just this space, or even just this subject. Social Media seems to qualify all manner of people to offer expert opinion on just about anything.

 

[lazy farmer]

I’m not sure that it’s just this space, or even just this subject. Social Media seems to qualify all manner of people to offer expert opinion on just about anything.

Yeap a little knowledge(or not) is dangerous
Meanwhile back in the real world Liverpool won I went to a supermarket bought a large chicken for a lush roast whilst wearing a mask and lived my life as normal.
what a day to be alive.

 

[Charlie Gill]

To the poster on this thread who says children don’t suffer from covid , today the government announced the deaths of another two children with covid , one in the 0 to 4 age group and one 15 to 19 . No children should be dying from covid as it was entirely preventable using masks and hepa filters and ventilation in schools . 88 children in total now and many suffering long covid .

As sad as that is, it looks like with Delta, the vaccination take up, and keeping things ticking over there are only 2 states; you've either had covid, or you're going to get it. Hopefully they'll be a vaccine along soon that's both effective in the kids and is universally accepted by the parents.

 

[gone up the hill]

Intrestingly i know of several people both having 2 doses of the vac and not having any having this really bad cold that is going around currently and the ones that have had 2 doses of the vac have been hit really hard with this cold and the ones that have had no doses only had a very light cold....

Several people now dying from covid that have had 2 doses of the vaccine.

Going forwards if the Gov bring back face masks/ SD etc etc then that will be an admission that the vaccine does not work and then where do we go?

We cannot keep on locking down/ shutting pubs/shops etc for 6 months of the year every year.


The NHS has had nearly 2 years to get its house in order, if they have not done that by now they never will and thus they will just have to cope the best they can going forwards without lockdowns/ SD etc etc.

And i know of a young NHS doctor who is a cancer doctor, on about 150k a year, been working from home ( well saying he was doing something ) since the first lockdown, as soon as he was told he had to go back into the hospital to work 5 days a week he went off with stress on full pay! he is so stressed that he can play golf every day/ organize a massive/complicated building project on his house and so the list goes on... yet he cannot do any work..... utter BS, people like this are the problem and if they cannot do their job they should be sacked and lose all their pension rights! if they faced that people like him would be back at his hospital desk at 8 am the next morning!

 

[lazy farmer]

Intrestingly i know of several people both having 2 doses of the vac and not having any having this really bad cold that is going around currently and the ones that have had 2 doses of the vac have been hit really hard with this cold and the ones that have had no doses only had a very light cold....

Several people now dying from covid that have had 2 doses of the vaccine.

Going forwards if the Gov bring back face masks/ SD etc etc then that will be an admission that the vaccine does not work and then where do we go?

We cannot keep on locking down/ shutting pubs/shops etc for 6 months of the year every year.


The NHS has had nearly 2 years to get its house in order, if they have not done that by now they never will and thus they will just have to cope the best they can going forwards without lockdowns/ SD etc etc.

And i know of a young NHS doctor who is a cancer doctor, on about 150k a year, been working from home ( well saying he was doing something ) since the first lockdown, as soon as he was told he had to go back into the hospital to work 5 days a week he went off with stress on full pay! he is so stressed that he can play golf every day/ organize a massive/complicated building project on his house and so the list goes on... yet he cannot do any work..... utter BS, people like this are the problem and if they cannot do their job they should be sacked and lose all their pension rights! if they faced that people like him would be back at his hospital desk at 8 am the next morning!

So you know for a fact only one cold strain is circulating in your area? Amazing did you get them all to take a blood test and dna test it ?

 

[kiwi pom]

You think you're going to get a choice?

At this stage we certainly have a choice, its unclear what restrictions those who aren't vaccinated will face.
The PM has said life will not be normal for those who are not vaccinated.
Vax passports are just around the corner.
See what happens when its approved for under 12's.

 

[Anymulewilldo]

Don’t know where it will end. But both the wife & I had our second covid jabs (Moderna) a fortnight ago. I’ve never had flu symptoms like it. Was bad for 3 days and rough a further 4. The wife was ok for first 2 days, just a sore arm and slight headache. 2 days after that I had too rush her into A&E after she rang 111 with severe migraines that she couldn’t shake. Blood tests, brain scans and swabs all came back as “just a reaction too the vaccine” it bloody scared us both. She was proper distraught when I had too take her in. She still has sporadic headaches pretty much daily now. But they are getting less and are less powerful. It certainly will make us both think twice before we go for another jab. Might as well catch something with a 99.9% survival rate in healthy young people then take a jab that we know reacts badly with us!
And I’m not a conspiracy theory kind of person.

 

[Estate fencing.]

Don’t know where it will end. But both the wife & I had our second covid jabs (Moderna) a fortnight ago. I’ve never had flu symptoms like it. Was bad for 3 days and rough a further 4. The wife was ok for first 2 days, just a sore arm and slight headache. 2 days after that I had too rush her into A&E after she rang 111 with severe migraines that she couldn’t shake. Blood tests, brain scans and swabs all came back as “just a reaction too the vaccine” it bloody scared us both. She was proper distraught when I had too take her in. She still has sporadic headaches pretty much daily now. But they are getting less and are less powerful. It certainly will make us both think twice before we go for another jab. Might as well catch something with a 99.9% survival rate in healthy young people then take a jab that we know reacts badly with us!
And I’m not a conspiracy theory kind of person.

TBH that the same as me, I'm 99% sure I had covid march 2020 (bloody Cheltenham festival) and was quite ill for a couple of days, but no where as bad as having the jab, I was really ill 24 hours later while shearing and had to pack up and go home (first time in my life) and for 5 days (for both the first and second) and could barely get to work with bad migraines and flacked out, I'm seriously considering not having the booster when I'm told to.

 

[devonbeef]

Because what the vaccine sceptics said would happen when these mRNA vaccines were announced is coming to pass. Its increasingly apparent that a) the mRNA vaccines do not protect against infection, indeed after a few months of protection they seem to increase the likelihood of it, and b) there is data beginning to come out that if you catch covid after double vaccination your body's immune response is not the same as when an unvaccinated person gets it. A vaccinated person who then gets covid appears to end up with a low N antibody response to the covid virus. This means that any future infections from mutations will affect you far worse, as your body doesn't have the full 'tool kit' to deal with the whole virus, its just 'learned' to deal with the virus via its spike protein (using S antibodies) that the vaccines produce in our bodies, but has low N (or nucleus) antibody response. When you catch and survive covid as an unvaccinated person you get full S and N antibody responses which then cover you for a far greater range of virus mutations.

This data comes from the latest UK Health Security Agency, see page 23 of this report:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1027511/Vaccine-surveillance-report-week-42.pdf

Quote: recent observations from UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA) surveillance data that N antibody levels appear to be lower in individuals who acquire infection following 2 doses of vaccination.

Think of it as having just one size of spanner to fix your machine, because it has all the same size nuts and bolts, so one size of spanner works fine. But if the manufacturer suddenly decides to change the size of some bolts then your one tool kit box won't fix the problem........

This is bad news for anyone who has taken the vaccine. It means that even if you catch covid after vaccination you will not then have the same immunity that a non-vaccinated person has post infection, and if the virus then mutates its spike protein a bit the next new variant could bypass your immune system entirely.

Seriously, if the N antibody response is as low in the vaccinated as the data suggest, this is VERY bad news.

So I have a 13 and 14 year old which we have booked in to have there 1 st vaccine jab on Wednesday, I did not even question it until looking at what is says in the report.Now I am really not sure, fine making decision for myself, for them not so easy. Any thoughts?

 

[Mouser]

So I have a 13 and 14 year old which we have booked in to have there 1 st vaccine jab on Wednesday, I did not even question it until looking at what is says in the report.Now I am really not sure, fine making decision for myself, for them not so easy. Any thoughts?

Don't.

 

[Anymulewilldo]

So I have a 13 and 14 year old which we have booked in to have there 1 st vaccine jab on Wednesday, I did not even question it until looking at what is says in the report.Now I am really not sure, fine making decision for myself, for them not so easy. Any thoughts?

I’d be inclined too wait a bit yet. Not write it off but just wait and see first.