T1 Spend???

[warksfarmer]

So basically Agrii are shafting their customers which is how this thread started. Applying shite that is not required and charging more for chemicals with less actives than other stuff on the market.

 

[Daniel]

Holy s**t

Last year I spent more than normal because the crops looked so good at £201.26/ha (all chems) and averaged 7.2t/ha dried

Agrii are shafting their customers and yet your total spend is greater than mine (at last seasons prices) for fractionally less output?!

 

[Steevo]

If the wheat price is higher, it seems that some folk find more expensive ways of growing it!

Last night, someone at a Syngenta meeting was keen on a T1.5 spray despite a well timed T1 & a likely short interval to T2. The general consensus was that a T1.5 really wasn't necessary unless there was a risk that T2 would be delayed.

I'm still trying to get T1s on!

Heard it was a tad damp last night down there!

 

[warksfarmer]

Agrii are shafting their customers and yet your total spend is greater than mine (at last seasons prices) for fractionally less output?!

But as I clearly stated last year we threw a lot at it because it looked like a bumper year looming. I used last year as the example because you did that's all !!

 

[Brisel]

Heard it was a tad damp last night down there!

Yeah, it was a bit moist! 17mm rain with high winds. 3 trees down in my grass silage fields. Very spring-like

 

[Clive]

Enough of the theory and finally some weather to get it on here today !

 

[DRC]

if only here. After over 60mm tues night, our ground won't travel and there's standing water all over the place.
And we are in the same Diocese as you Clive!

 

[warksfarmer]

10mm in total here over the last 7 days.

 

[Clive]

10mm in total here over the last 7 days.

What a difference a few miles makes ! We had 25mm yesterday (welcome) total for last week now 40mm

 

[franklin]

Don't worry. I don't even know what it's used for apart from on barley for something.

Lol. Barley and wheat. Mildew and rusts. You should get to know it, as unlike a lot of triazoles it is not on any EU "to be reviewed" lists.

 

[franklin]

Too sticky to go here, and more wet forecast for the weekend before a welcome return to some dry I hope.

 

[cricketandcrops]

Crops forward that I look after, T2 will start next week as flag leaf is just starting to show...for the record T1 was applied between 29th and 31st April at GS31/32 was :-

1.25 lt/ha Chord
1.0 lt/ha Bravo 500
1.5 lt/ha BASF 3C
0.15 lt/ha Moddus

 

[warksfarmer]

Crops forward that I look after, T2 will start next week as flag leaf is just starting to show...for the record T1 was applied between 29th and 31st April at GS31/32 was :-

1.25 lt/ha Chord
1.0 lt/ha Bravo 500
1.5 lt/ha BASF 3C
0.15 lt/ha Moddus

Looks more sensible. What was the price and in hindsight do you think it was necessary and could you of stretched it out a bit amalgamating it with T2 perhaps on a stronger more expensive dose?

 

[cricketandcrops]

Given than our wheat crops were drilled mid September to early October, they look great and have potential to achieve 5 t/ac due to soil type they were worth protecting, my opinion was we could go stronger at T1 they cut back at T2 if necessary whereas 2012 taught me you couldn't chase disease once you had it, I suspect the ears could be popping out when we apply T2, we have had 38 mm rain in last 6 days so potential for septoria infection has risen again, so glad we did it.

Will use SDHI at T2 then straight tebuconazole on the ear - need wheat to perform to make up for some of the poor rape, we have been very lucky in east Lincolnshire, not had the poor weather like other areas

 

[warksfarmer]

Given than our wheat crops were drilled mid September to early October, they look great and have potential to achieve 5 t/ac due to soil type they were worth protecting, my opinion was we could go stronger at T1 they cut back at T2 if necessary whereas 2012 taught me you couldn't chase disease once you had it, I suspect the ears could be popping out when we apply T2, we have had 38 mm rain in last 6 days so potential for septoria infection has risen again, so glad we did it.

Will use SDHI at T2 then straight tebuconazole on the ear - need wheat to perform to make up for some of the poor rape, we have been very lucky in east Lincolnshire, not had the poor weather like other areas

Totally agree where your coming from if your sat on big potential crops and what your saying seems sensible.

Whats your view on the whole 'T' fungicide program and how it was created? Do you think that fungicides should be applied as and when required or do you think preventative approach is the best - so basically will you spray them every year irrelevant of crop and weather?

 

[Clive]

Totally agree where your coming from if your sat on big potential crops and what your saying seems sensible.

Whats your view on the whole 'T' fungicide program and how it was created? Do you think that fungicides should be applied as and when required or do you think preventative approach is the best - so basically will you spray them every year irrelevant of crop and weather?

what's the problem with the term "T" Lee ?

all it is is 4 key timings based on growth stage where research has shown the best responses to fungicide are achieved - no one says you have to apply at each of these timings as like this year most missed T0 completely

Fact is you are about to apply a T1 and when your flag is out I expect you will apply a T2 fungicide. If you miss out T3 (earwash) will I suspect depend upon pressure and potential at the time

I'm not sure anyone "created" the timings they are widely accepted growth stage points thats all

 

[warksfarmer]

what's the problem with the term "T" Lee ?

all it is is 4 key timings based on growth stage where research has shown the best responses to fungicide are achieved - no one says you have to apply at each of these timings as like this year most missed T0 completely

Fact is you are about to apply a T1 and when your flag is out I expect you will apply a T2 fungicide. If you miss out T3 (earwash) will I suspect depend upon pressure and potential at the time

I'm not sure anyone "created" the timings they are widely accepted growth stage points thats all

I'm more coming from how the input industry in general has managed to 'sell to' us farmers the idea that we need this and that in order to grow good crops, when in reality much of it is not required.

So really the 'T' program was just an example because its in this thread about T1, thats all. My point was that who says that TO, T1, T2, T3 and now T1.5 is worthwhile as I think a lot of this so called research is geared towards justifying the spend rather than whether its worth it or environmentally friendly?

Right at the beginning of the thread it was mentioned that over the last 30 years yields have not really come on much - maybe 0.5t/acre but input spend on crops has more than doubled. So why are we spending double but only achieving an extra 0.5t/ac? Less important if wheat is £200/tonne because 0.5t is significant but when wheats £120/t it is very important.

I am maybe taking things to the limit this year but will stand by my decision and happy put the yield maps on here to see how we faired, but I still say I dont have any high potential crops and I am looking at very average yields at best so reducing my input spend where I can.

 

[Clive]

I'm more coming from how the input industry in general has managed to 'sell to' us farmers the idea that we need this and that in order to grow good crops, when in reality much of it is not required.

So really the 'T' program was just an example because its in this thread about T1, thats all. My point was that who says that TO, T1, T2, T3 and now T1.5 is worthwhile as I think a lot of this so called research is geared towards justifying the spend rather than whether its worth it or environmentally friendly?

Right at the beginning of the thread it was mentioned that over the last 30 years yields have not really come on much - maybe 0.5t/acre but input spend on crops has more than doubled. So why are we spending double but only achieving an extra 0.5t/ac? Less important if wheat is £200/tonne because 0.5t is significant but when wheats £120/t it is very important.

I am maybe taking things to the limit this year but will stand by my decision and happy put the yield maps on here to see how we faired, but I still say I dont have any high potential crops and I am looking at very average yields at best so reducing my input spend where I can.

no one other than your agronomist says you need fungicide at any of those timings but those ARE the key fungicide timings

the term "T" shouldn't be what you take issue with, that is soundly researched and tried / tested maximum return points for fungicide use if conditions dictate - nothing more than timings based on growth stage

What you should take issue with (as I do) is salesmen masquerading as agronomists to sell their usually over priced and deceptively labeled products to farmers who feel they are acting upon good advice when in fact it's just a sales pitch

and I thought we had cleared up that yields have come on a lot in the last 30 years ? - 2t/ha in fact which is a 30% increase (HGCA ave yield graph) in face of the fact that we have developed resistance to many old fungicides and rotation and soil fertility has probably turned for the worse over the same period

 

[cricketandcrops]

Totally agree where your coming from if your sat on big potential crops and what your saying seems sensible.

Whats your view on the whole 'T' fungicide program and how it was created? Do you think that fungicides should be applied as and when required or do you think preventative approach is the best - so basically will you spray them every year irrelevant of crop and weather?

I think the whole T fungicide timing is not a problem providing actual GS timings are correct, too many haven't a clue what the target is except the flag leaf. I would say preventative approach is cheaper and provides greater disease control, products don't have the curative ability they used to have, Hereford costs considerably more to try and eradicate disease, and as 2012 showed very unsuccessfully on the whole.

Early on in the programme multisite protectants are vital, they are the building blocks of programme, a question I always get asked is around the need for T0, my response is it can be a management tool if you have a large amount of acres to get round, or on a variety like Oakley it's a must, the key timing is still GS39....

I look after a friends crops who didn't drill until Jan/Feb, he crops will never yield 4t/ac no matter what we throw at it so all it has had so far is 1.0 Cherokee with Manganese, etc and will get a GS39 spray of SDHI and a tick the box tebuconazole on the ear, total cost no more than. £50 per ha. Compare this to where I have good crops which still have great potential we shall probably end up around £70-80 per ha, so agree can reduce when yield potential has gone......that said no matter what we do if the sun doesn't shine during grain fill yields will be hit, all we can do is ensure crop is in best possible shape when we enter that period

One thing this forum shows is that what one person does in not right or somebody else is wrong, crop husbandry has several fundamentals and the rest is decisions based on experience and opinion.

Certainly don't agree with blanket treatments

 

[cricketandcrops]

Always interests me that people assume chemicals are expensive. Suppose because I work for a manufacturer I would say so, but if you look at farm cost increases against inflation the only two things that haven't kept up are the two we are most short of......new chemicals and labour, both pesticides and wage costs have increased less than inflation...fertiliser, field and wearing parts are biggest increases