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Discussion in 'Classic Machinery' started by DrWazzock, Dec 14, 2016.
The fact it had a handbrake was what got me.
You missed some out there
Available in 1,2,3,4,5,6 and 8 Cylinders.
Mursal,you need to appreciate that high BHP was not available years ago some trucks were limited to 20 or 30 MPH, early ERF,Foden and Atkinson 4 wheelers had 4 cylinder engines of around 72 BHP pulling 13/14 tons.
John Smith's brewery had 4 wheeler Atkinsons with 5LW,100 BHP in the fleet returning 22 MPG, then later with the 6LW,120BHP doing slightly more.
Here's one fitted in a Rolls Royce
Others were fitted to Jaguar,Bentley and Lagonda cars.
Probably not. Particularly as he is a non engineer who doesn't understand the implications. Veering back to a journal polish and new set of shells. Agree that anything more could open up a major can of worms. Have found cracked blocks on my own engines before now doing a complete stripdown. Take it on the chin if its your own, but it isn't easy to explain to others that it not worth continuing with it.
Don't particularly feel like busting a gut for somebody elses machine either, particularly as I have plenty on.
To my mind, you have no choice, it has to have a full rebuild, if you dont, and things go wrong later, you will have no warranty to fall back on. Strip it, list the parts and get a written order for the work. Dont lay yourself open to comebacks.
Are you offering to do it for nothing then?
You dont get much for "a favour" nowdays and you dont get any warranty with a favour full stop.
I could probably stretch to a days time and 20 quid for a set of shells if it was someone i knew. Plenty of engines been made to go by changing one pair of shells and sanding the crank down. Its not exactly something built with tight tolerances after all.
Alternitavely, you could strip it down, go to town and throw 500 quid at it, manage to crack the block pulling the liners out and then be left seriously out of pocket.
But if I just whip the sump off, polish the big end journals and replace the shells and put the sump back on and it runs without knocking then he will be satisfied. If something else then goes wrong, which it might, then he'll be made to understand that its another problem, which it is. I wont be giving a warranty anyway. I'll be explaining that I am doing a cheap and cheerful minimum intervention to get it running for light duty again and that if another problem arises then it will need a complete refurb with all the risks and costs associated with it.
However, if I do a full refurb at the outset and find for example that the crank has already been taken down to the min, then I'm in a corner. Its either going to cost a lot in time and parts or it isn't worth continuing with it and I wont be thanked either way. And Ive often found a lot of complete refurbs end up costing a lot more and taking a lot longer than I ever anticipated. And with a machine of that age its surprising how many seized studs, sheared off bolts etc can add hours and pounds to the job. Sometimes its best to let sleeping dogs lie.
Thanks to all for helping make the decision.
Got a Tef to do here and similar quandary, runs fine but does breath a little, doing the whole tractor up as it has been sat in a shed for 20yrs, replace pistons/liners? I am going to then I know it's all 100% right.
If it starts ok, leave it alone!!! Just give it an oil change, set the tappets and a days decent graft, it may be all it needs
The cartridge breather on a TEF is a terrible thing, it seems to spread the fumes everywhere, leaving the entire engine block covered in oil and dust. Often thought that they need enclosing in a canister and then the pipe directing down to the sump like any other engine
Normally I would agree with you John but am going to do a full restoration, dont want to go to all that work and get final paint on only to find it is a pain to start and smokes more than I do, be a shame to have to rip apart again to do the job right.
Id have no qualms about doing that if it was my own tractor.
As I said, strip it down and check it, then if you find a scrap crank, you can tell the owner. Just agree to do an examination first, and set the price for that.
He will be satisfied. Until something else goes wrong! To protect yourself, you must get a written order for any work you do, and dont think not offering a warranty lets you out, it doesnt, even if you win any court action you still end up out of pocket. I have worked in the motor trade for years and you get comebacks often years after the original job. More than once I have heard complaints such as, "Since you did the engine, the handbrake has stopped working" If you fit a rebuild kit, and any problems show up, its the suppliers problem, polish the crank, and it throws a rod in a years time, it will still be your problem
If I do a full rebuild and it costs at least £1000,, probably more, and then it still goes wrong I very much doubt the supplier of the refurb kit will want to know about it. The customer will be pretty upset as well.
In any case, once I've got the big end bearing caps off I will call the customer in and we'll make a joint decision to move forward based on what we find. It'll be the customers call. Either proceed with a minimal low cost repair admittedly with some risk of another failure or go for a full refurb at maybe up to £2k on the engine of a 53 year old tractor that does a bit of grass cutting at the weekend, also with the risk that a crack is discovered or created somewhere that effectively writes the engine off.
In any case the customer is a friend. He doesn't understand the details of engineering but I can speak with him frankly and so my best for a realistic cost.
But it all depends what we find.
I'll re-build it top to bottom for 2k!!! (the engine that is!)
Not for my hourly rate you wouldn't.
if i remember correct the rods are to big to come up the bore so it would be crank out if you need to take out pistons
This shows clearly the difference in attitudes between someone who has spent thier life on the shop floor with an un-limitless supply of parts and money all thier life, and someone who has been at the sharp end of "having to make do with what you get put in front of you
One...if your doing something as a favour, you get NO WARRANTY WHATSOEVER. This point is clear to both parties, there are also no comebacks. Written order for the work, yes if you worked in longbridge and half the time was spent on strike, a written order meant you actually had to do something
Aftermarker suppliers dont want to know about warranty either, i fitted a VAP oil pump to a dexta engine, it had a faulty non relief valve that meant the oil pressures were high enough to blow the sealing rings out of the filter. I sent it back, said it was a dud, didnt get a refund. I refitted the old pump and just took it as a lesson that VAP parts are in general, shite.
Very often, you have to do things "not by the book" in this trade. I had a customer turn up at 5pm on a bank holiday, desperate for a belt for thier straw chopper, rain was forecast for the monday. I didnt have a belt to fit, there wasnt any suppliers open, and a new belt couldnt be obtained until the tuesday.
However, i did have a belt what fitted, but was 6" too long. So, the belt tensioner was cut, a spacer welded into it to increase its range, and the longer belt was fitted, the customer was up and running by 7pm that night.
I take it you would have sent the customer off with "i havent got a belt, il sort one out on tuesday".........
2K!!!!!!!! The Perkins in my Leyland cost less the £700.00 and that included a brand new cyl head!
Chill out lads, chill out ..........