TED20 Engine Refurb.

[DrWazzock]

Looking at some imperial bolt torque data sheets for oiled bolts

I ended up with

Main bearings caps 80 foot lbs, manual said 90 to 100

Conrods 36 foot lbs, manual said 40 to 46.

Looks as though the manual settings were designed for non oiled bolts.

Lesson learned. Felt plenty tight enough anyway.

Soaked the felt seals( for the flywheel end bearing cap) in shellac and poked them down the slots each side of the cap using a hay turner tine and a screwdriver. An awkward slow messy job, that first seems like mission impossible but the end result looks OK.

Oil pump and sump and flywheel refitted.

Had to grind a thou or two off the front bearing cap front face to make it lie flush with the front of the block to fit the front plate. Alternative would have been to dismantle and see if the cap could have been repositioned but I had carefully tightened it down while rotating the crank so wasn't keen of ravjng it all apart again only to get same result. Next time watch front flushness while tightening down and see if can be made good at that stage.

Next to fit clutch and refit engine to tractor to hold it solid for setting up valve timing, fitting timing chain and distributor, working on front end.

 

[DrWazzock]

Fitted clutch after turning a centralising piece on the lathe. Then refitted engine to tractor. As usual there was a bolt missing and all the washers were odds and ends so replaced them.

Then set about fitting the camshaft sprocket and timing chain. Basically depends on getting camshaft in the position where it's half way between no 4 exhaust just closed and inlet just opening, then moving the camshaft sprocket about on its holes so the chain is not slack on the drive side when the no1 is at TDC as fixed by punch through hole into flywheel. No. 4 valves clearances are set 10 thou more than normal so 10 thou feeler can be used to detect just opened/closed. It was a bit debatable when the feeler was being gripped but I think it was more or less right.

 

[DrWazzock]

Set up the ignition timing today. Had to increase contact breaker gap slightly as couldn't get contact to open in either of the two distributor drive shaft gear mesh positions with the camshaft. In one position the cam in the distributor nearly opened the contact as you rotated the distributor body, but in the next tooth position the cam had just passed the opening of the contact. Sod's law, but fixed by opening up gap slightly. Don't know if this means the valve timing is out. I wonder if the teeth on the bevel gear in the camshaft and in the distributor drive shaft were machined to a fixed relative position to the camshaft. Or maybe wear and slack in the gears and the pin that hold the gear in the distributor shaft, the joint etc as led to a drift. Anyway eventually set it up to open spot on TDC then retarded it one division of the distributor body indicator scale, which I think corresponds to 4 degrees.

Fitted most of the other stuff back on. Just front axle, radiator and fuel tank to put on.

 

[Ley253]

Set up the ignition timing today. Had to increase contact breaker gap slightly as couldn't get contact to open in either of the two distributor drive shaft gear mesh positions with the camshaft. In one position the cam in the distributor nearly opened the contact as you rotated the distributor body, but in the next tooth position the cam had just passed the opening of the contact. Sod's law, but fixed by opening up gap slightly. Don't know if this means the valve timing is out. I wonder if the teeth on the bevel gear in the camshaft and in the distributor drive shaft were machined to a fixed relative position to the camshaft. Or maybe wear and slack in the gears and the pin that hold the gear in the distributor shaft, the joint etc as led to a drift. Anyway eventually set it up to open spot on TDC then retarded it one division of the distributor body indicator scale, which I think corresponds to 4 degrees.

Fitted most of the other stuff back on. Just front axle, radiator and fuel tank to put on.

So its firing 4 degrees after tdc? I dont think thats right, I would expect at least that amount before.

 

[DrWazzock]

So its firing 4 degrees after tdc? I dont think thats right, I would expect at least that amount before.

Manual says fix flywheel at TDC, turn distributor so that contact opens at that point (TDC), then turn the distributor body one division of its pointer towards R, retard.

But yes, I thought the spec sheet said it should fire four degrees before TDC as you indicate.

But then it says somewhere else that as soon as the engine runs up, the spark is considerably advanced by the automatic advance unit in the distributor. But the static timing must be retarded to avoid a kickback on the starting handle or damage to the starter.

I followed the procedure but I have my doubts.

 

[DrWazzock]

Yes I think I need to turn it 4 degrees to advance, not retard.

The manual I was reading had the flywheel locating hole 10 BTDC, so they turned it 1 division (=4 degrees) towards retard to end up firing 6 degrees BTDC.

This engine has flywheel locating hole at TDC and requires ignition at 4 BTDC so I need to set contacts to open at TDC then turn to advance by one division (=4 degrees).

Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[Mursal]

Yes a little advances for static timing, ensuring that with direction of rotation contacts are just opening at that point. Direction of rotation is important as if incorrect the points will just be closing, which as you know is incorrect. Distributor direction can be easily mixed up.

 

[DrWazzock]

With piston at TDC, Turned the distributor against direction of travel of rotor so contact just opened up, tighten the clamp then turned it another division on its pointer to advance it by 4 degrees.

Got everything else back on and it struck up easily. Given it a run and it looks so far so good. Runs evenly, smoothly and quietly and seems to have reasonable power, though I am no tune up expert.

Wondering how long it needs to work before retorquing head bolts and resetting valve clearances?

Many thanks to the people of this forum who have taken time to give advice particularly @Mursal and @Ley253 and others.

 

[DrWazzock]

And if I replace the transmission oil, is there a strainer somewhere?

Thanks.

 

[Mursal]

I'd heat it up (cardboard over the from of rad) and retighten, or at least go through the motions, not to give yourself more work.

Happy days .............

Might be a strainer in the bottom, is there a bottom plate, forget to be honest?

 

[DrWazzock]

Yes, the last thing I need is a sheared off head bolt so retorquing will be on the cautious side.

Time to get back to some farming.

 

[Ley253]

remember to back each bolt/nut off half a turn when re torquing. It takes much more torque to start a fixing than it does to continue the movement.

 

[Flat 10]

remember to back each bolt/nut off half a turn when re torquing. It takes much more torque to start a fixing than it does to continue the movement.

Makes sense. Is that what you would always recommend/ is normally recommended then?

 

[DrWazzock]

Right.

Another problem.

After running for a while, enough to warm up, then if you switch it off it won't restart but it will restart some random time later.

Also it sometimes cuts out like somebody has turned the ignition off and won't restart until some random time later.

Won't start on either the handle or the starter in this situation. But then suddenly it will start up and run fine.

Cleaned out the carb and nothing really amiss there and cleaned the sediment bowl out as they needed doing anyway. It did restart after this but I think it was a coincidence.

I reckon it's the coil. Only 5000 ohms resistance between the HT output terminal and the 12 v input terminals, and my voltmeter is picking up 1000v on the 12 volt input to the distributor, as if the high voltage is leaking to the low voltage side and to earth through the contact breaker. But this is the first I've dealt with so don't know what typically happens. It looks like somebody has put a new capacitor in the distributor not that long ago. I suppose it could also be leaking to earth due to damage from the HV leakage. Coil looks original, 64 years old.

 

[Mursal]

Next time it stops, put a plug on the HT lead from the coil and see have you a spark when cranking.
An old lead (copper) and a few mm air gap to the tinwork will do the same.
Even a plug on one of the plug leads, work back from there.
Points sticking?

If its fuel related, it would splutter to a stop, even rev a bit hard just before it stops?

 

[Ley253]

Have a look at the points, I would not be surprised to find they are burnt to a blue colour. If they are the condenser is failing, and that would be in line with the problem you have.

 

[Ley253]

Makes sense. Is that what you would always recommend/ is normally recommended then?

Its another thing which all the books assume everyone knows,but it is normal practise.

 

[DrWazzock]

Did try a plug out of the engine on a plug lead held with pliers against the head. No spark when cranking over. Checked 12 v supply to coil. Seemed good. It's a common fault to all cylinders. Never misses at all when running then ignition appears as if it's been switched off and it runs down, then won't restart, then after a while it will.

I'll have another go tomorrow.

 

[DrWazzock]

I have a hunch it's an intermittent fault in the coil that occurs when it heats up, causing the high voltage to earth down through the 12 v side, then it clears when it cools down. It does get quite warm. But I'll check points and condenser as well. The points look fairly new as does the condenser, but the new condenser might have been blown by high voltage leakage from the coil. Maybe this is why the condenser had been replaced, but it was the coil that was the root of the problem...maybe.

My (low voltage) ohmmeter measures 5000 ohms between HV coil and LV coil. I would have expected megohms. Maybe I'll try my megger on it tomorrow to give it a bit more welly.

 

[Ley253]

Might be an idea to check the coil voltage, someone may have stuck a 6 volt one one, or perhaps a 12v battery!