TFF's ELMS Questions time ? Number 2

[Clive]

Following one from last time DEFRA has once more invited the members of TFF to put their questions regarding the ELMS scheme forward and take them to an exclusive interview with David Kennedy ( Director General, food, farming, animal and plant health) head of the ELMS team in Westminster who will also be joined Janet Hughes, who is the Programme Director for the Future Farming and Countryside Programme (FFCP).

The Q&A will take place on the 21st January and will be filmed and posted here ASAP after that

Like last time because of current Covid restrictions making preventing travel to London the interview will be carried out online, recorded and released on here first

Just as we did last time we will pick the bests / most popular questions our members post and ask as many as we can in the time available. Please post what you would like me to ask and we will select a cross-section and put them forward


I think its great to see senior DEFRA staff so keen to engage directly with farmers as this so let's get some good question suggestions, please .................

For those not familiar with David Kennedy here is a link https://www.gov.uk/government/people/david-kennedy And Janet Hughes https://defrafarming.blog.gov.uk/author/janet-hughes/

On 30 November DEFRA published The Path to Sustainable Farming: An Agricultural Transition Plan 2021 to 2024. It explains what changes are coming as part of the seven-year agricultural transition period, now that the UK has left the EU. It is particularly focused on the specific changes from 2021 to 2024.

To accompany the Agricultural Transition Plan’s publication, we’ve created a booklet called Farming is Changing. It summarises the Agricultural Transition Plan, and was written with farmers and land managers in mind

This Q&A is your chance to ask questions about this


So .......... add your you questions to this thread please !

 

[Clive]

Video of the first Q&A with David for those that missed it and to avoid repetition of the same questions

 

[tepapa]

I asked this last time but the question wasn't chosen so I shall ask again but won't hold my breath that it'll get picked.

Are you going to take inflation into account in the payment calculations?

I ask this because the scheme I'm most familiar with is using costings from at least 15 years ago and I can assure you every cost has gone up since then but it hasn't been accounted for or updated in all that time.

 

[Clive]

So a question of my own .......

Does DEFRA see a role for existing, commercial assurance providers like Red Tractor to in anyway police the scheme ? Farmers are not happy with the uncompetitive position this scheme already places them in vs imports and are concerned that a DEFRA mandate would simply feed the monster ?

 

[Bald Rick]

I’ve got a question @Clive


What is that Jersey calf whispering in your ear?

(Could be a deer I suppose)

 

[Tubbylew]

I asked this last time but the question wasn't chosen so I shall ask again but won't hold my breath that it'll get picked.

Are you going to take into account inflation in the payment calculations?

I ask this because the scheme I'm most familiar with is using costings from at least 15 years ago and I can assure you every cost has gone up since then but it hasn't been accounted for or updated in all that time.

I was about to say the same thing, the payment rates need to be linked to inflation and reviewed every 3yrs to make sure it's keeping up. I wish I could alter my labour rate up as fast as timber and wire.

 

[jonnieboy]

I know some landowners have concerns that long term elms could devalue land as it wouldn’t be reversed into arable production is there any assurance this won’t be the case

 

[Luke Cropwalker]

Are DEFRA looking for ELMS trial farms, if so how would you apply to take part?

 

[Sid]

I asked this last time but the question wasn't chosen so I shall ask again but won't hold my breath that it'll get picked.

Are you going to take inflation into account in the payment calculations?

I ask this because the scheme I'm most familiar with is using costings from at least 15 years ago and I can assure you every cost has gone up since then but it hasn't been accounted for or updated in all that time.

I keep pushing this point when asked for input on Test and trials.

The scheme could be a yearly scheme like BPS so rates for somethings would change YOY.
The issue as you rightly raise is long term commitment!

Are DEFRA looking for ELMS trial farms, if so how would you apply to take part?

Plenty of Test and trials are taking place now.

 

[jonnieboy]

I was about to say the same thing, the payment rates need to be linked to inflation and reviewed every 3yrs to make sure it's keeping up. I wish I could alter my labour rate up as fast as timber and wire.

They are talking about taking lowest bids for options
We’re stuffed as farmers calculators don’t seem to sometimes add up

 

[delilah]

No more chance of an arable boy asking this now than last time round, but will throw it in again anyway.

https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/tffs-elms-questions-time.311483/page-3#post-6798136

 

[Farma Parma]

Right then Clive please ask the man this
my current combined subs is give or take £130/ac ok
how can myself as a tenant farmer still maintain my current rent with this support dropping without loosing area to grow crops on & loosing income forgone?
cant wait to see how there going to help us tenants this way. Thanks

 

[Bill the Bass]

Gven that ELM is likely to be about delivering public goods not deliverable by the market, will defra properly value these goods and move away from the current ‘income foregone’ method of agri-environment payment calculation and reward farmers fairly for the goods and services we are led to believe the public want?

 

[Grass And Grain]

Most direct drillers need spring crops in their rotation to help with culrural grassweed control. This is often spring barley.

The spring barley goes to make alcohol which we know is taxed to control consumption.

Are direct drillers going to be disallowed from getting ELMS subsidies, and are you going to shift this payment to ploughing vegetable growers who provide our 5-a-day?

Tin hat on. But in all seriousness, I think it's a fair question. Can Clive bring himself to ask this?

 

[steveR]

I know some landowners have concerns that long term elms could devalue land as it wouldn’t be reversed into arable production is there any assurance this won’t be the case

An interesting and important point in the light of the attitude of RPA/NE on bringing back land that has been in a reversion grass type ley under Stewardship Schemes.

As PP is supposed to be so good at saving the world, I really cannot see land reverting to arable being supported, trees are even worse!

 

[jonnieboy]

An interesting and important point in the light of the attitude of RPA/NE on bringing back land that has been in a reversion grass type ley under Stewardship Schemes.

As PP is supposed to be so good at saving the world, I really cannot see land reverting to arable being supported, trees are even worse!

Don’t you loose IHT benefits if you have woodlands opposed to farmland as well ?

 

[steveR]

Don’t you loose IHT benefits if you have woodlands opposed to farmland as well ?

Thought woodland was supposed to be good from the IHT point... but not an issue to me.

 

[Grass And Grain]

With the old BPS, farmers got BPS income plus cropping income from 100% of their land.

If ELMS requires leaving land uncropped (on for example 20% of the farm's area), will the cropping income x 80% plus the ELMS payment at least equal the farms income in the BPS days?

 

[Tubbylew]

They are talking about taking lowest bids for options
We’re stuffed as farmers calculators don’t seem to sometimes add up

That'll be a race to the bottom I won't be involved with. They have already said that they don't want to spend the money, but the outcomes they want are expensive right now gawd knows how much this stuff will cost by the time the schemes are up and running, let alone 15yrs down the line.

 

[Farma Parma]

With the old BPS, farmers got BPS income plus cropping income from 100% of their land.

If ELMS requires leaving land uncropped (on for example 20% of the farm's area), will the cropping income x 80% plus the ELMS payment at least equal the farms income in the BPS days?

Ive heard from a good source but he recons we might all end up with half of what we all got from all subs going forward if we are lucky and the input sharks will have to cut there cloths
like we will also. i hope this isnt true coz if this is an progress in UK ag the 30% thats tenants & have no other sources of income will struggle without major changes in how were all trying to farm.