TFF's ELMS Questions time ? Number 2

[Poncherello1976]

My question.
Whatever scheme we end up with, can you get a few farms to do a dry run to make sure the inevitable new computer system works ok, all information required can be inputted ok and the system can cope with things like common land grazing where the same area is often listed on multiple applications..

Following on from this question.
How are you going to ensure that the scheme will hit the ground running when it comes on line and and payments will be made in a timely and correct manner? We had our last HLS payment 12 months late, and then 6 months later had to pay back over half of it. Which does not help business planning and mental health!

 

[midlandslad]

Are they able to give out any further on what the sustainable farming incentive will comprise. Is this going to be similar to ELS with a flat rate or potential to earn more?

 

[Hampton]

Video of the first Q&A with David for those that missed it and to avoid repetition of the same questions

Thanks for including my question, I will try to make them a bit more concise in future

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Really?
Your going to blame the DEFRA if your farm profitability and mental health suffers?
Wow

One of DEFRAs declared aims for the "sustainable farm incentive" is to retain farm profitability.

 

[Dan Powell]

1, Will there be consideration of increased overheads when part of a farm is taken out of production for stewardship options?

2, We hear and see the benefits of grazing animals both ecologically and in carbon terms of reduced inputs and soil health. Will the livestock industry be supported or persecuted under the new system?

Yes I would like a question along the lines of your second question asked:

Given that there will probably be payments for arable reversion or grass breaks in rotation (e.g. GS4 herbal ley option), will there be a market for red meat in the future when the media are blaming climate change on ruminant livestock? How does government square this circle?

 

[Rob Garrett]

1, Will there be consideration of increased overheads when part of a farm is taken out of production for stewardship options?

2, We hear and see the benefits of grazing animals both ecologically and in carbon terms of reduced inputs and soil health. Will the livestock industry be supported or persecuted under the new system?

3. What incentives will be offered to encourage livestock integration within the arable rotation? Thinking 2 to 3 year herbal/clover leys.

4. Would lump sum payments on establishment of multi year rotational options be considered? Example; establish a 5 year herbal ley & get the annual payment value in a lump sum. Massive cashflow boost for farmers.

 

[onesiedale]

Listening to the first interview, DK seemed pretty well versed on repeating the DEFRA line; "...we will use the public money that we have" followed by the SIX target outcomes;
Air Quality
Water Quality
Biodiversity
Climate Change
Flood Mitigation
Countryside Amenity Value and Culture

Put into context, I can't see DEFRA doing anything within ELMS that will not measurably achieve these outcomes.

Given that Permanent Pasture would tick the box on all 6 of the target outcomes and it is probably achievable for the vast majority of farmers of all sizes and it doesn't necessarily affect the productive capacity of the land.
Will the ELMS include a simple Permanent Pasture Payment?

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

One of the key failures of farm policy of the last 30 years has been training and "knowledge exchange". The old Agricultural Training Board used to facilitate free or subsidised training courses throughout agriculture benefiting productivity, profitability and farm safety. I had free training from the ATB in 1st Aid, Tyre repair, Chainsaw safety and maintenance, Tree felling, Calving cows, Hedge laying and Crop sprayer operation amongst other things.

Will subsidised training feature in either ELM or the SFI?

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

When will we start to see some indication of payment rates on offer? Without this it is impossible for farmers to decide whether the scheme will be worth taking up? If payment rates are insufficient leading to low uptake then all of the development effort will have been wasted.

 

[onesiedale]

One of the key failures of farm policy of the last 30 years has been training and "knowledge exchange". The old Agricultural Training Board used to facilitate free or subsidised training courses throughout agriculture benefiting productivity, profitability and farm safety.

Will subsidised training feature in either ELM or the SFI?

Maybe training should be offered/given to ELMS participants in the key 6 areas of outcomes intended
Air Quality
Water Quality
Biodiversity
Climate Change
Flood Mitigation
Countryside Amenity Value and Culture

then the outcome is 'guaranteed' therefore payment should be 'guaranteed' - even as @Rob Garrett has alluded, paid as an upfront payment win-win!

 

[holmes65]

Will there be any incentives for production of industrial crops in order to reduce the use of fossil fuel based materials, eg Hemp to replace plastics. Or raw materials for cellulose based packaging. This would provide an alternative income stream and reduce the national carbon footprint.

 

[Clive]

I can't understand why DEFRA appears to think TFF is worthy of getting opinions from us lot, yet RT and NFU dismiss this forum as insignificant !!?!

clearly DEFRA want to work with farmers and orhers want to work dispute farmers !

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

I may have misunderstood but it seems that the forestry industry will qualify to apply to receive payments from the agriculture funding pot if they can deliver any of the 6 listed public goods. Is this the case? If so then why isn't the forestry support budget also incorporated into the funding of the schemes?

 

[Clive]

worth reminding all that even though it will not be positive to ask all the questions suggested in the time they will obviously be reading this thread in anticipation of the questions so will see them all

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Past scheme's design has precluded silvopasture and silvo-arable. Given that both offer significant potential to deliver on the proposed public goods will this be corrected in SFI and ELM?

 

[Fake it ‘til you make it]

Economies of scale and reduced overheads mean that a payment per hectare goes further on a large holding of several thousand hectares than it does on a small family farm. Would DEFRA consider a sliding scale per hectare for payments, for example supporting the first 100 hectares at a higher level, with the levels per hectare dropping down progressively from there?

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Economies of scale and reduced overheads mean that a payment per hectare goes further on a large holding of several thousand hectares than it does on a small family farm. Would DEFRA consider a sliding scale per hectare for payments, for example supporting the first 100 hectares at a higher level, with the levels per hectare dropping down progressively from there?

They already are with their plan for phasing out BPS. This might be in your favour......

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Will the new scheme be based on the existing agriculture subsidy scheme terms and conditions? The same set of t's & c's which first appeared for Countryside Stewardship have now been applied to schemes including the Herdgerows & Boundaries Grants and the 3 rounds of the Countryside Productivity Small Grants Scheme.

These conditions are massively biased in the government's favour, leaving all of the risk on the applicant and making demands which most other business would consider offensive.

Will the SFI and ELM be based on a "partnership" delivery approach instead of the "imposition" created by these existing t's & c's?

 

[Ben Dolan]

Hi,
We are part of a group (West Midlands ringing group) who have been working with farmers and landowners for years, developing and gathering baseline data for wildlife, in particular bird records that use the land. This has been at the expense of our volunteers.
The ELMS contracts for surveying has been rewarded to a number of organisations such as wildlife trusts and RSPB and other ecologists. These will visit the farms and conduct a short survey, which will not show the true picture of the farm, therefore could affect payments.
There is no suggestion that these organisations have been asked to approach groups like ours to obtain and pay for the quality data already gathered by groups who are professional surveyors and ornithologists.
Moving forward surely this must be best practice for ELMS and if not, why not?

 

[cornishfarmer]

1)No mention of food in elms. So my question
With the uptake of elms this will reduce agricultural production from a country that isn’t self sufficient. This will lead to increased imports from countries with a higher carbon footprint in food production and lower welfare standards. How will you that’s in charge of ELSM explain this to the public?
2) you couldbe known for doing to agriculture what Mr Beeching did to the railways. Are you happy with this comparison?
3) as found out with the free school meals fiasco a lot of money get spent on administration and bureaucracy will you guarantee a percentage of the budget goes to the farmer rather than spent on administration like it does now with countryside stewardship compared to the BPS?