TFF's ELMS Questions time ? Number 2

[Grass And Grain]

Ive heard from a good source but he recons we might all end up with half of what we all got from all subs going forward if we are lucky and the input sharks will have to cut there cloths
like we will also. i hope this isnt true coz if this is an progress in UK ag the 30% thats tenants & have no other sources of income will struggle without major changes in how were all trying to farm.

BPS - £95×100acres =£9,500
Cropping GM - £200/acre x 100 acres = £20,000
Total = £29,500 GM

vs ELMS...

Cropping GM - £200/acre x 80 acres = £16,000
Therefore to equal the previous farm GM, the ELMS payment needs to be £13,500.

So the ELMS payment would need to be £4,000 greater than the old BPS payment.

 

[ajd132]

BPS - £95×100acres =£9,500
Cropping GM - £200/acre x 100 acres = £20,000
Total = £29,500 GM

vs ELMS...

Cropping GM - £200/acre x 80 acres = £16,000
Therefore to equal the previous farm GM, the ELMS payment needs to be £13,500.

So the ELMS payment would need to be £4,000 greater than the old BPS payment.

There is no way elms is going to even come close as a replacement. It might be abit of extra cream on the top, probably if you are farming in a certain way. The whole industry is going to have to lean up. There has got to be a reduction in market rents, surely?!

 

[Grass And Grain]

There is no way elms is going to even come close as a replacement. It might be abit of extra cream on the top, probably if you are farming in a certain way. The whole industry is going to have to lean up. There has got to be a reduction in market rents, surely?!

I totally agree with you.

I think the challenge we've got to put to David Kennedy is for DEFRA to deliver an ELMS scheme that maintains current farm profitability, and doesn't cause financial and mental health problems for farmers.

So, my question...
Part 1.
David, can you deliver an ELMS scheme that at a minimum maintains net farm profitability (compared to the old BPS).

Part 2. (Not certain if this is a fair question)
Mental health and suicide in farming is correlated with profitability. Will ELMS (vs BPS) reduce profitability and increase mental health problems.

P.S. i think he's a really good guy, and I'm impressed that he's using a platform such as tff in the consultation process. Very, very good. It's questions from us which can hold them to account and make them consider issues they might not have thought about. Excellent.

 

[Beef farmer]

I totally agree with you.

I think the challenge we've got to put to David Kennedy is for DEFRA to deliver an ELMS scheme that maintains current farm profitability, and doesn't cause financial and mental health problems for farmers.

So, my question...

David, can you deliver an ELMS scheme that at a minimum maintains net farm profitability.

P.S. i think he's a really good guy, and I'm impressed that he's using a platform such as tff in the consultation process. Very, very good. It's questions from us which can hold them to account and make them consider issues they might not have thought about. Excellent.

Really?
Your going to blame the DEFRA if your farm profitability and mental health suffers?
Wow

 

[Wooly]

I can't understand why DEFRA appears to think TFF is worthy of getting opinions from us lot, yet RT and NFU dismiss this forum as insignificant !!?!

 

[Grass And Grain]

Really?
Your going to blame the DEFRA if your farm profitability and mental health suffers?
Wow

I think it's fair to challenge DEFRA to try and maintain profitability vs our EU neighbours, particularly as though there is still tariff free access for goods. It's quite important!

What would you rather have (per 100 acres).

ELMS payment of say £8k, but option A you've got to put 40 acres into stewardship options at a rate of £200/acre. Or option B, same £8k, but £800/acre on 10 acres of stewardship options. Option B leaving you with another 30 acres of cropping income.

I think the way it is structured can make a big difference to profitability. I think that's a reasonable point to discuss.

 

[Beef farmer]

I think it's fair to challenge DEFRA to try and maintain profitability vs our EU neighbours, particularly as though there is still tariff free access for goods. It's quite important!

What would you rather have (per 100 acres).

ELMS payment of say £8k, but option A you've got to put 40 acres into stewardship options at a rate of £200/acre. Or option B, same £8k, but £800/acre on 10 acres of stewardship options. Option B leaving you with another 30 acres of cropping income.

I think the way it is structured can make a big difference to profitability. I think that's a reasonable point to discuss.

Id rather scrap all subs....

 

[ajd132]

I totally agree with you.

I think the challenge we've got to put to David Kennedy is for DEFRA to deliver an ELMS scheme that maintains current farm profitability, and doesn't cause financial and mental health problems for farmers.

So, my question...
Part 1.
David, can you deliver an ELMS scheme that at a minimum maintains net farm profitability (compared to the old BPS).

Part 2. (Not certain if this is a fair question)
Mental health and suicide in farming is correlated with profitability. Will ELMS (vs BPS) reduce profitability and increase mental health problems.

P.S. i think he's a really good guy, and I'm impressed that he's using a platform such as tff in the consultation process. Very, very good. It's questions from us which can hold them to account and make them consider issues they might not have thought about. Excellent.

I don’t agree with you that we are owed profit.

 

[midlandslad]

At the moment the BPS is essentially a landowners sub passed on via higher rents. How will DEFRA ensure that ELMS is a payment to the farmer for providing public goods?

 

[ploughman1963]

At the moment the BPS is essentially a landowners sub passed on via higher rents. How will DEFRA ensure that ELMS is a payment to the farmer for providing public goods?

That’s exactly the question I would like answered as well please

 

[Sid]

BPS - £95×100acres =£9,500
Cropping GM - £200/acre x 100 acres = £20,000
Total = £29,500 GM

vs ELMS...

Cropping GM - £200/acre x 80 acres = £16,000
Therefore to equal the previous farm GM, the ELMS payment needs to be £13,500.

So the ELMS payment would need to be £4,000 greater than the old BPS payment.

Under T&T i am involved in even with the whole farm at the high level part wont replace BPS.

But There are 3 different parts to elms as envisaged atm.

 

[Sid]

I can't understand why DEFRA appears to think TFF is worthy of getting opinions from us lot, yet RT and NFU dismiss this forum as insignificant !!?!

I thought it was a Q and A session?

Thats not gathering opinions. Does Boris gather opinions at PMQs?

 

[Grass And Grain]

Let's try and stick to posting questions, otherwise Clive will end up trawling through pages of discussion.

 

[Mixedupfarmer]

At the moment the BPS is essentially a landowners sub passed on via higher rents. How will DEFRA ensure that ELMS is a payment to the farmer for providing public goods?

Good question

 

[zero]

My question.
Whatever scheme we end up with, can you get a few farms to do a dry run to make sure the inevitable new computer system works ok, all information required can be inputted ok and the system can cope with things like common land grazing where the same area is often listed on multiple applications..

 

[Farma Parma]

Id rather scrap all subs....

Me too aslong as our end product rises to say min of £100 an acre.
Cereals & Livestock are on a up atm but we all know it will drop at some point.

 

[Farma Parma]

how can you make even half the rent back on perm pasture that has limited grazing & peat bog type of land that really isnt much good for anything other than left to Nature
thats the major point in any Subbed based system we currently have it keeps it as a viable business model & balances things out with Nature as its protected.
more so if its classed as SSSi
No Rent to pay & owned outright its a diff story.

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

1, Will there be consideration of increased overheads when part of a farm is taken out of production for stewardship options?

2, We hear and see the benefits of grass and grazing animals both ecologically and in carbon terms of reduced inputs and soil health. Will the livestock industry be supported or persecuted under the new system?

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Will you still be using the Rural Land Register mapping system? If so will annual mapping updates still be imposed without checking the assumptions made with the farmer first?

This single policy has caused huge workload increases in reversing incorrect changes and contributed significantly to payment delays.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Would you consider setting outcome targets and leaving land managers significant flexibility in how we seek to achieve them rather than expecting prescriptive sets of actions to be implemented on diverse landscapes?