Thank goodness

[Ashtree]

You could say if there hadn't been empires of France, uk and Spain ireland would still be full of people instead of them all buggering off to the US also just think about all the descendants of the slaves in the USA that have a far better life than the black natives that are still in Africa should they feel shame because they have a better life than those left in Africa?
Humans have always killed each other it's called evolution and survival of the fittest, its one reason we have the modern trappings of life instead of living in caves still, we all benefit from that and you need to remember that while some brave Irish fought against Germany YOUR country took the cowards way out and claimed to be neutral, had it not been for the british empire and then the Russians and finally the US we would all be speaking German now, had the Empire not existed in 1939 we may well have not held out

Funny. I’m just watching a documentary about an iconic photograph of working men, sitting on a steel beam, high up in the Rockefeller building in NY, during its construction. See link below.
There was no record kept of who the men were, and in the nineteen nineties there was a concerted effort to get them identified. Eventually most were, and inevitably some were Irish immigrants, doing deadly work, to try get a better lives for their families.
The nephew of one of the men was interviewed. Excellent chap, who had taken huge interest in the photograph, and consequently in the history of the time, both in Ireland and New York.
Asked, when and why his uncle had left for America, he had great detail. The uncle (man on the beam), as a young lad was standing outside his house in a small village Shanaglish Co Galway. His mother was sitting outside also, with his six month old brother in her arms. Two Crossley tenders of British troops drove through the village on their way back to their barracks in Galway. The soldiers opened fire, killing the mother and baby. They drove back to barracks. Nobody ever was held accountable. The young lad was seriously traumatised and subsequently emigrated to NY.
Did you mention the word coward?.....

 

[robs1]

Funny. I’m just watching a documentary about an iconic photograph of working men, sitting on a steel beam, high up in the Rockefeller building in NY, during its construction. See link below.
There was no record kept of who the men were, and in the nineteen nineties there was a concerted effort to get them identified. Eventually most were, and inevitably some were Irish immigrants, doing deadly work, to try get a better lives for their families.
The nephew of one of the men was interviewed. Excellent chap, who had taken huge interest in the photograph, and consequently in the history of the time, both in Ireland and New York.
Asked, when and why his uncle had left for America, he had great detail. The uncle (man on the beam), as a young lad was standing outside his house in a small village Shanaglish Co Galway. His mother was sitting outside also, with his six month old brother in her arms. Two Crossley tenders of British troops drove through the village on their way back to their barracks in Galway. The soldiers opened fire, killing the mother and baby. They drove back to barracks. Nobody ever was held accountable. The young lad was seriously traumatised and subsequently emigrated to NY.
Did you mention the word coward?.....

View attachment 940689

What was Irelands contribution to stopping hitler ? A good individuals from Ireland died fighting him, the country as a whole did nothing, even you cant deny that fact.

 

[Ashtree]

What was Irelands contribution to stopping hitler ? A good individuals from Ireland died fighting him, the country as a whole did nothing, even you cant deny that fact.

In service to their country: Moving tales of Irishmen who fought in WWII

The stories of Irishmen who served in WWII are deeply moving says Geoffrey Roberts

www.irishexaminer.com

 

[Ncap]

What was Irelands contribution to stopping hitler ? A good individuals from Ireland died fighting him, the country as a whole did nothing, even you cant deny that fact.

By that reasoning the country whose soldiers murdered a mother and child in @Ashtree account ranks as heroic (just as they were in Amritsa)
Does that ‘national heroism’ then rub off on robbo too somehow? Maybe osmosis?

 

[Muck Spreader]

Have you actually looked at how the Mughals ruled India? I think very many Indians see Britain as a liberator of India,
We have many things to be ashamed of there, but many more to be proud of too.

I certainly have, and suggest a review of the Great Bengal famine where up to 10 million starved to death though negligence and greed on the part of the Empire.

 

[Exfarmer]

I certainly have, and suggest a review of the Great Bengal famine where up to 10 million starved to death though negligence and greed on the part of the Empire.

Neglect may be a possible indictment, I would strongly argue that greed on the part of Empire was not. This is a highly inflated number of deaths which occurred in the middle of WW2. The most likely figure is nearer 1.5 -3.5 million at a time when literally all merchant shipping was tied up and being harried at every possibility.
There was over 100,000 tonnes of shipping lost in the bay of Bengal alone, thanks to Japanese action. The Japanese were in control of Burma and looked like getting into India. At least half a million Burmese peasants had poured into Bengal whose population had risen 50% in the last 40 years partly due to increasing health. This part of the world had relied for some years on importing Burmese rice , which had now been cut off.
There was certainly profiteering on the part of traders and there was certainly historic neglect in not reforming the land system. The system ensuring equal division of land among children ( just like the Napoleonic code does in France) ensured holdings had grown smaller and smaller, meant it had got increasingly difficult for peasants to feed their families. A problem which exists across much of India still!

 

[robs1]

In service to their country: Moving tales of Irishmen who fought in WWII

The stories of Irishmen who served in WWII are deeply moving says Geoffrey Roberts

www.irishexaminer.com

Do you have trouble reading posts sometimes, I said in several posts that many individuals from Ireland fought and died, the country of Ireland didnt do anything to help the world fight hitler,

 

[Pasty]

People need to let go of hate. It can consume you.

 

[Muck Spreader]

Neglect may be a possible indictment, I would strongly argue that greed on the part of Empire was not. This is a highly inflated number of deaths which occurred in the middle of WW2. The most likely figure is nearer 1.5 -3.5 million at a time when literally all merchant shipping was tied up and being harried at every possibility.
There was over 100,000 tonnes of shipping lost in the bay of Bengal alone, thanks to Japanese action. The Japanese were in control of Burma and looked like getting into India. At least half a million Burmese peasants had poured into Bengal whose population had risen 50% in the last 40 years partly due to increasing health. This part of the world had relied for some years on importing Burmese rice , which had now been cut off.
There was certainly profiteering on the part of traders and there was certainly historic neglect in not reforming the land system. The system ensuring equal division of land among children ( just like the Napoleonic code does in France) ensured holdings had grown smaller and smaller, meant it had got increasingly difficult for peasants to feed their families. A problem which exists across much of India still!

Sorry, I should have made it clearer. As you were talking about the Mughals, I was referring to the Bengal famine of 1770. But if you want another mess of Empire you need look no further than the partition of India in 1947 with 1 to 2 million deaths and up to 20 million displaced. And whilst I wouldn't say we were entirely responsible for it, we certainly one of the main contributors.

 

[Exfarmer]

Sorry, I should have made it clearer. As you were talking about the Mughals, I was referring to the Bengal famine of 1770. But if you want another mess of Empire you need look no further than the partition of India in 1947 with 1 to 2 million deaths and up to 20 million displaced. And whilst I wouldn't say we were entirely responsible for it, we certainly one of the main contributors.

The Bengal famine of the 1770's was nothing to do with empire, that was to do with the East India Company and they were certainly working with and following the appalling practices of the Mughals before them. Their actions lead ultimately to the East India Company being wound up and rule from London imposed.
The Mughals regarded the masses purely and simply as slaves who were completely dispensable

 

[Muck Spreader]

Are you saying that the CURRENT generations of Africans are better off in Africa than the ones in the USA ?

With that statement, are you implying that the slave trade was actually beneficial to the Africans transported and their future offspring!

 

[Muck Spreader]

The Bengal famine of the 1770's was nothing to do with empire, that was to do with the East India Company and they were certainly working with and following the appalling practices of the Mughals before them. Their actions lead ultimately to the East India Company being wound up and rule from London imposed.
The Mughals regarded the masses purely and simply as slaves who were completely dispensable

The EIC was Empire, much of England's wealth in that period derived from it's plundering, and many parliamentarians and gentry derived their own personal fortunes from it.

 

[ollie989898]

What was Irelands contribution to stopping hitler ? A good individuals from Ireland died fighting him, the country as a whole did nothing, even you cant deny that fact.

LOADS of men from Ireland took up arms and fought under Wellington against Napoleon, just as many did years later to work as the navvies and build the canals and railways (spelling?).

 

[ollie989898]

The EIC was Empire, much of England's wealth in that period derived from it's plundering, and many parliamentarians and gentry derived their own personal fortunes from it.

And France never did any of that. I see. We understand. It's not just another round of your Anti-British vituperative observations as I assumed.

 

[Ashtree]

The EIC was Empire, much of England's wealth in that period derived from it's plundering, and many parliamentarians and gentry derived their own personal fortunes from it.

That’s precisely my point. And these gentrified establishment types, very much hard Brexiteer types, aren’t really any more benevolent than their forefathers. Whilst they aren’t plundering in foreign places, they have no compunction on leading their countrymen and women on an economic path, which clearly isn’t good for the ordinary pleb. Yes, the insider establishment types will profit. But Joe the Plumber .... tough sh!t man!

 

[ollie989898]

That’s precisely my point. And these gentrified establishment types, very much hard Brexiteer types, aren’t really any more benevolent than their forefathers. Whilst they aren’t plundering in foreign places, they have no compunction on leading their countrymen and women on an economic path, which clearly isn’t good for the ordinary pleb. Yes, the insider establishment types will profit. But Joe the Plumber .... tough sh!t man!

We get it, you don't like the British and would never do anything benevolent in our lives, certainly wouldn't ever see the UK lend Ireland money, for example.

 

[Pasty]

We get it, you don't like the British and would never do anything benevolent in our lives, certainly wouldn't ever see the UK lend Ireland money, for example.

He is British.

 

[Muck Spreader]

And France never did any of that. I see. We understand. It's not just another round of your Anti-British vituperative observations as I assumed.

What has that got to do with a thread about Patel and BLM. With regard to Empire we have to accept it for what it was and of its time, which was generally exploitation and wealth creation. And stop wrapping it up in the Victorian era of candyfloss propaganda about grateful natives being brought civilisation, most of whom already having their own, and equally sophisticated versions.

 

[Exfarmer]

The EIC was Empire, much of England's wealth in that period derived from it's plundering, and many parliamentarians and gentry derived their own personal fortunes from it.

The EIC was most definitely not empire, it was a private trading company anyone could buy shares in.
That does not mean it was not grossly exploitative of the nations where it traded but it was a product of its time. The owners were men of their day , plundering the worlds wealth in the same way you can see some men today in their own way.
This is not to excuse them in any way, and it must be born in mind that many people here in the UK were highly critical of the activities of the EIC. Further the EIC were not in full control of
India or even the regions , technically they were subsiduary to the rulers there, even if they had placed those rulers

 

[Muck Spreader]

The EIC was most definitely not empire, it was a private trading company anyone could buy shares in.
That does not mean it was not grossly exploitative of the nations where it traded but it was a product of its time. The owners were men of their day , plundering the worlds wealth in the same way you can see some men today in their own way.
This is not to excuse them in any way, and it must be born in mind that many people here in the UK were highly critical of the activities of the EIC. Further the EIC were not in full control of
India or even the regions , technically they were subsiduary to the rulers there, even if they had placed those rulers

The EIC only traded, if you can call it that, the with the total blessing of the British government. The best way I could describe the EIC is as land based privateers. They regally made use of the Royal navy and the army to supplement their own considerable military forces and were often finically underwritten by the government. Because just like today, with some corporate leviathans they were to big to fail.