That Time of Year Again.....

[Lurker]

And we go in full circle to the title of the thread

Its that time of year again !!!!

I certainly feel that I just have to keep going round in circles having to point out basic facts is exhausting.

 

[Ley253]

No by default the English world rep is the English world rep they may or may not be British Champion, what part of there is no such thing as an English Champion do you not understand (Please tell me where the SOP rules it states there is any such thing as an English Champion). To answer you question The English world match rep thoroughly deserves recognition for achieving that status only unless they are also British Champion.

In your own extreme style of scenarios if there were 20 competitors and only one was English, and forget about top ten ploughers going through to the plough offs if the Englishman finished 19th after the first days ploughing, would you still call them a title that does not exist such as "English Champion" even if you got your way and they where allowed through to be the 11th ploughmen in the plough off and still finished 11th would you still award them that title which does not exist?



Why is that done in the world style classes at the Scottish, it should be in either none of the classes or all of them, I completely agree with your points which you made so well that in your own class ploughing against the top ploughers regardless of nationality rewards you by inspiring you to up your game to be the best you must beat the best, Then surely the exact same should apply to the world style at the Scottish, thus it would encourage your own world style ploughers to up their own game just as they may need to at whatever competitions they may win the right to represent Scotland at, and it would definitely encourage more competitors of other nationalities to make the commitment to going to the Scottish to have the right to be Scottish Champion at world Style classes rather than a mix of classes in the visitors plough off, surely that would benefit everyone in the end. So then basically why do world classes at the Scottish remain configured so only a Scotsman can be Scottish Champion?

Because the whole reason for holding the match, (which started as a break away from the SOP) is to make certain a Scott gets a place in the world match. Apart from holding the match, the Scots and Welsh have their own world ploughing council seats, before, they were represented by the SOP. thus the reason for the SOP event still being the British national. Having their own seats opened the way for them to have their own competitors, which they sure are of the correct ancestry!
This has caused, in the case of Ireland a problem, at one time there was a rep from both north and south, then the world organisers said it was one country, so only one rep! I cant remember if that was ever settled, and if so, in what way.
Talking of loosing the thread, its astounding that so much "ink" can be expend discussing the addition of a small (say four) number of plots to one class plough off.This has no bearing on quality of work, educational progress or anything other than making sure Englishmen,and women are treated in the same manner as those in the areas controlled by the Scotts and Welsh associations.

 

[Ley253]

I certainly feel that I just have to keep going round in circles having to point out basic facts is exhausting.

It would be less so if said facts were relevant to the core subject! What we are discussing, or at least that was my intention is a minor change of procedure, merely the addition of a few extra plots in one class plough off!

 

[Lurker]

It would be less so if said facts were relevant to the core subject! What we are discussing, or at least that was my intention is a minor change of procedure, merely the addition of a few extra plots in one class plough off!

On that note we agree the facts I've had to present were not on subject core but were necessary facts pointing out the errors of your misunderstanding of the British Championship which you diverted to from the subject core, but I'm sure you will agree that we will continue to disagree on your viewpoint of how it should be run.

But none the less I'm happy to leave others to draw there own conclusions from merits of our discussion and would just like to say cheers and happy new year to you! So the discussion can at last get back on topic.

 

[Howard150]

Without the scrap tractor & plough classes

You could hold the national on an allotment

Shropshire now has less than a handfull of world style ploughmen dispute having a multi uk champion in the last 10 years or so

I should think that fact that the ploughman from north and West make the class a better quality given that we have failed in the world style classes in the last few matches shows thd current crop need better compertition to drive the standard up.

And not a very big allotment at that! Where at one time ploghmen were only allowed to go to the world 3 times, it might come a time when one of the qualifying conditions for entry is that you are prepared to go more than 3 times.

I was in the plough offs (they would never allow a welshman or a scotsman to win )

Whilst I am sympathetic to your view, it is not the sole province of the British, whether it be either admin or judges.
Look back no further than the Classic Class last time the Welsh National was held at Sarn - 2009 I think - when the judges and I must stress here - not the administrators - put their local hero through to win by a vast margin of 36 points when 5th place would have been more fitting. National awards do not normally come with wheelmarks in the start, bad pairing, a surfeit of Stubble showing, and the plough out of the ground at the finish. An Englishman and 3 Welshmen were very badly done to that day.
Stuart Forsyth has won the Classic Class at the British.
It is the view of many that Ray Alderson was badly treated, and not by the administration, at the Scottish the year before last.
Sorry Hugh but bias by judges runs down as far as Shires, possibly even as far down as Ridings of Shires, not just Nationalities.

We digress. Full circle now to where it all began what seems like aeons ago. Wishing all on here a very happy and healthy new year. May your furrows be full, your finishes deep and may your boards stay bright.
Dave

Nearly forgot but.....May the best ploughman on the day be the winner - not the judges favourite or some other chosen individual! Ploughing sans frontiers!

 

[cropmaster]

And not a very big allotment at that! Where at one time ploghmen were only allowed to go to the world 3 times, it might come a time when one of the qualifying conditions for entry is that you are prepared to go more than 3 times.




Whilst I am sympathetic to your view, it is not the sole province of the British, whether it be either admin or judges.
Look back no further than the Classic Class last time the Welsh National was held at Sarn - 2009 I think - when the judges and I must stress here - not the administrators - put their local hero through to win by a vast margin of 36 points when 5th place would have been more fitting. National awards do not normally come with wheelmarks in the start, bad pairing, a surfeit of Stubble showing, and the plough out of the ground at the finish. An Englishman and 3 Welshmen were very badly done to that day.
Stuart Forsyth has won the Classic Class at the British.
It is the view of many that Ray Alderson was badly treated, and not by the administration, at the Scottish the year before last.
Sorry Hugh but bias by judges runs down as far as Shires, possibly even as far down as Ridings of Shires, not just Nationalities.

We digress. Full circle now to where it all began what seems like aeons ago. Wishing all on here a very happy and healthy new year. May your furrows be full, your finishes deep and may your boards stay bright.
Dave

Nearly forgot but.....May the best ploughman on the day be the winner - not the judges favourite or some other chosen individual! Ploughing sans frontiers!

I totally agree with that

 

[Boohoo]

Because the whole reason for holding the match, (which started as a break away from the SOP) is to make certain a Scott gets a place in the world match. Apart from holding the match, the Scots and Welsh have their own world ploughing council seats, before, they were represented by the SOP. thus the reason for the SOP event still being the British national. Having their own seats opened the way for them to have their own competitors, which they sure are of the correct ancestry!
This has caused, in the case of Ireland a problem, at one time there was a rep from both north and south, then the world organisers said it was one country, so only one rep! I cant remember if that was ever settled, and if so, in what way.
Talking of loosing the thread, its astounding that so much "ink" can be expend discussing the addition of a small (say four) number of plots to one class plough off.This has no bearing on quality of work, educational progress or anything other than making sure Englishmen,and women are treated in the same manner as those in the areas controlled by the Scotts and Welsh associations.

Without wanting to get too political, Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland are currently 2 different countries and are represented in ploughing the same way as they are in football, as separate countries. I've never heard of an all ireland ploughing organisation with only 1 competitor going to the world match.

 

[Ley253]

Without wanting to get too political, Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland are currently 2 different countries and are represented in ploughing the same way as they are in football, as separate countries. I've never heard of an all ireland ploughing organisation with only 1 competitor going to the world match.

No, there was no all Ireland, but the world people deemed you to be one country, and so, One representative.Caused a great deal of trouble as I recall, but they must have backed down.

 

[Ley253]

And not a very big allotment at that! Where at one time ploghmen were only allowed to go to the world 3 times, it might come a time when one of the qualifying conditions for entry is that you are prepared to go more than 3 times.




Whilst I am sympathetic to your view, it is not the sole province of the British, whether it be either admin or judges.
Look back no further than the Classic Class last time the Welsh National was held at Sarn - 2009 I think - when the judges and I must stress here - not the administrators - put their local hero through to win by a vast margin of 36 points when 5th place would have been more fitting. National awards do not normally come with wheelmarks in the start, bad pairing, a surfeit of Stubble showing, and the plough out of the ground at the finish. An Englishman and 3 Welshmen were very badly done to that day.
Stuart Forsyth has won the Classic Class at the British.
It is the view of many that Ray Alderson was badly treated, and not by the administration, at the Scottish the year before last.
sorry Hugh but bias by judges runs down as far as Shires, possibly even as far down as Ridings of Shires, not just Nationalities.

We digress. Full circle now to where it all began what seems like aeons ago. Wishing all on here a very happy and healthy new year. May your furrows be full, your finishes deep and may your boards stay bright.
Dave

Nearly forgot but.....May the best ploughman on the day be the winner - not the judges favourite or some other chosen individual! Ploughing sans frontiers!

Sarn is almost circular! The winner of the world style can be found having dinner with the class judge the evening before, and has been for several years! There are people on the committee trying to change this, by changing the judge every year, but so far I don`t believe they have had any success.Mind you, even a Welshman cant win, Aled Morgan was robbed blind a few years ago!
The prize for the best opening, has been awarded to a competitor in a class that doesn't do one!

 

[Boohoo]

No, there was no all Ireland, but the world people deemed you to be one country, and so, One representative.Caused a great deal of trouble as I recall, but they must have backed down.

According to the NIPA website, Northern Ireland have been sending their own represtatives since 1953. Was there a world match before then?

 

[Petetheploughman]

And not a very big allotment at that! Where at one time ploghmen were only allowed to go to the world 3 times, it might come a time when one of the qualifying conditions for entry is that you are prepared to go more than 3 times.




Whilst I am sympathetic to your view, it is not the sole province of the British, whether it be either admin or judges.
Look back no further than the Classic Class last time the Welsh National was held at Sarn - 2009 I think - when the judges and I must stress here - not the administrators - put their local hero through to win by a vast margin of 36 points when 5th place would have been more fitting. National awards do not normally come with wheelmarks in the start, bad pairing, a surfeit of Stubble showing, and the plough out of the ground at the finish. An Englishman and 3 Welshmen were very badly done to that day.
Stuart Forsyth has won the Classic Class at the British.
It is the view of many that Ray Alderson was badly treated, and not by the administration, at the Scottish the year before last.
Sorry Hugh but bias by judges runs down as far as Shires, possibly even as far down as Ridings of Shires, not just Nationalities.

We digress. Full circle now to where it all began what seems like aeons ago. Wishing all on here a very happy and healthy new year. May your furrows be full, your finishes deep and may your boards stay bright.
Dave

Nearly forgot but.....May the best ploughman on the day be the winner - not the judges favourite or some other chosen individual! Ploughing sans frontiers!

@Howard150 Did you win on that day your ploughing is outstanding! Is the wheel on your TS 86 off a Ransomes 300 series?

 

[Ley253]

World organisation was formed in Feb, 52, first world match in 53. That being the case, it would seem the Irish problem was just a "growing pain", and sorted out before the first world match.

 

[cropmaster]

And not a very big allotment at that! Where at one time ploghmen were only allowed to go to the world 3 times, it might come a time when one of the qualifying conditions for entry is that you are prepared to go more than 3 times.




Whilst I am sympathetic to your view, it is not the sole province of the British, whether it be either admin or judges.
Look back no further than the Classic Class last time the Welsh National was held at Sarn - 2009 I think - when the judges and I must stress here - not the administrators - put their local hero through to win by a vast margin of 36 points when 5th place would have been more fitting. National awards do not normally come with wheelmarks in the start, bad pairing, a surfeit of Stubble showing, and the plough out of the ground at the finish. An Englishman and 3 Welshmen were very badly done to that day.
Stuart Forsyth has won the Classic Class at the British.
It is the view of many that Ray Alderson was badly treated, and not by the administration, at the Scottish the year before last.
Sorry Hugh but bias by judges runs down as far as Shires, possibly even as far down as Ridings of Shires, not just Nationalities.

We digress. Full circle now to where it all began what seems like aeons ago. Wishing all on here a very happy and healthy new year. May your furrows be full, your finishes deep and may your boards stay bright.
Dave

Nearly forgot but.....May the best ploughman on the day be the winner - not the judges favourite or some other chosen individual! Ploughing sans frontiers!

Sarn is almost circular! The winner of the world style can be found having dinner with the class judge the evening before, and has been for several years! There are people on the committee trying to change this, by changing the judge every year, but so far I don`t believe they have had any success.Mind you, even a Welshman cant win, Aled Morgan was robbed blind a few years ago!
The prize for the best opening, has been awarded to a competitor in a class that doesn't do one!

Sarn matches are unique

 

[cropmaster]

I hope you won on that day at Sarn, as your ploughing is outstanding! Is the wheel on your TS 86 off a Ransomes 300 series?

That was not sarn (all sarn matches are on grass )this was the all wales at Newtown i think

 

[Ley253]

Sarn matches are unique

Perfect match for the camp site I stay at! I am sure that too, is unique!

 

[Ley253]

That was not sarn (all sarn matches are on grass )this was the all wales at Newtown i think

I was thinking that, wrong time of year as well. Oh and no rocks, mind you the land seemed hard enough to make up for that! Was that a young Clive Nixon with the 86, showing all how it should be done?

 

[Petetheploughman]

That was not sarn (all sarn matches are on grass )this was the all wales at Newtown i think

I don't know the area at all but I've seen on here Sarn is usually on grass. I can't believe that 2009 is a decade ago now!

 

[Howard150]

That was not sarn (all sarn matches are on grass )this was the all wales at Newtown i think

What kind of a Welshman are you Hugh. Check your google earth. More than 1 Sarn. 1 near Newtown, 1 which we all know as Sarn and another 1 at Bridgend

 

[cropmaster]

What kind of a Welshman are you Hugh. Check your google earth. More than 1 Sarn. 1 near Newtown, 1 which we all know as Sarn and another 1 at Bridgend

Sorry must take more attention thought it was sarn on the lleyn

 

[Howard150]

@Howard150 Did you win on that day your ploughing is outstanding! Is the wheel on your TS 86 off a Ransomes 300 series?

Remember the local hero I talked of earlier?......36 points?...3 other Welshmen and 1 Englishman badly done to?.....

Same wheel. Ransomes used to put them on cultivators as well. Dowdeswell also used them. Perfect for the job with being radiused. Hard to get now but still available. Not cheap either. Have used quite a few over the years.