The Governments assault on livestock farming.

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Posted through the Sepa Facebook and local council Facebook page. The food bit says stop wasting food and eat local in which they mention meat. Big change from what usually comes from the Scottish Government.

 

[primmiemoo]

It's a swear word on here ? My work is done

Sadly not. It's just how it's spelt, isn't it?

 

[delilah]

Sadly not. It's just how it's spelt, isn't it?

To answer your question: I guess Clive sells them credits ?

 

[C.J]

That’s why I said “if”, but in terms of us defending ag, I’m not convinced that questioning global warming is the right way to go.

Well tomorrow (when your in a thinking mood) see if you can come up with an explanation , as to why the climate warmed so much 300 years ago.

 

[Muddyroads]

Well tomorrow (when your in a thinking mood) see if you can come up with an explanation , as to why the climate warmed so much 300 years ago.

Hedge trimming tomorrow, so far too much thinking time!

 

[primmiemoo]

To answer your question: I guess Clive sells them credits ?

If that's the case, they're in the wrong for expecting them to be available, imv.

 

[egbert]

Imagine? It’s happening. The Intergovernmental Panel for Climate Change (IPCC) is advising government to do exactly this and who is on the panel? The sustainability director of Drax amongst others.

I think the beef industry in particular as we know it today will change more in the next 5 years than it did after BSE in 1996.

that's neatly done Bill, bringing together the IPCC and BSE in a post.
now, what-or who- else linked them?????

 

[egbert]

View attachment 986163

The 1695 to 1730 warming was greater than our current warm period , and pre industrial too.

Because temps went from an abnormally cold phase to a 'just above mean' period?
If that's what you take from this graph @CJ there isn't much hope for you mate.
Was that heat wave in Canada not the ultimate game changer for denialists?
Records broken across a huge area by 10 degrees. 10 fudging degrees! it's unheard of, unprecedented in human history, and frightened me.

Pretending it isn't happening looks stoopid, and pretending it isn't very probably due to the evident hugely risen CO2 levels is naïve.
We need to keep the facts straight, to be able to counter the hooey.
Fix your attention on the methane argument, be ready to sink it with the basic chemistry whenever it's made.
That is where OUR battle is.

 

[Jackov Altraids]

The Agricultural industries assault on livestock farming.​

Have edited your heading for you.
NFU President on Any Questions: "We need to cut our livestock emissions".
NFU Deputy President on Farming Today: "We need to cut our methane emissions".
AHDB head of sustainability in evidence to Parliamentary select committee: "We need to reduce livestock numbers and plant trees ".
NFU and AHDB websites: Littered with references to the environmental damage caused by red meat agriculture.

Until we get our own house in order, I really don't see why everyone is moaning about the wider world.

I fear you/ we are fixated on winning the climate argument. We can and will win that.

The trouble is that in the mean time the government [almost certainly driven by businesses including the supermarkets, airlines, power stations, fakemeat etc] are adopting policies to undermine livestock farming.

For reasons already stated, and aided by Red Tractor, there will be an acceleration of the points made by @JP1

"Livestock markets gone
Small local abattoirs gone
Local livestock hauliers gone
Milk collection dead zones
The list goes on"

With the loss of critical mass and infrastructure, all that will remain is completely vertically integrated farms under full control of the supermarket that is holding the contract.

They won't care when food becomes short and the cost of imports rise massively.
They will also have large financial interests in the copyrighted Fakemeat.

But then there will be the faint and distant cheer of a few smallholders when they finally win acknowledgment that the loss of livestock from the country has had a massively detrimental effect.

 

[delilah]

I fear you/ we are fixated on winning the climate argument. We can and will win that.

The trouble is that in the mean time the government [almost certainly driven by businesses including the supermarkets, airlines, power stations, fakemeat etc] are adopting policies to undermine livestock farming.

For reasons already stated, and aided by Red Tractor, there will be an acceleration of the points made by @JP1

"Livestock markets gone
Small local abattoirs gone
Local livestock hauliers gone
Milk collection dead zones
The list goes on"

With the loss of critical mass and infrastructure, all that will remain is completely vertically integrated farms under full control of the supermarket that is holding the contract.

They won't care when food becomes short and the cost of imports rise massively.
They will also have large financial interests in the copyrighted Fakemeat.

But then there will be the faint and distant cheer of a few smallholders when they finally win acknowledgment that the loss of livestock from the country has had a massively detrimental effect.

I'm fairly sure we are in complete agreement with each other on the problems , the question is, what's the solution ? I'm saying it is to break up the cartel, i'm not sure what you're suggesting.

 

[wrenbird]

Surely “breaking up the cartel” can only happen if there is the political will to do so, and if the population of the country are willing to make a radical and wholesale change to their shopping and eating habits? They both seem as likely as an iceberg in Hades, .
If this unlikely radical change where to occur, it would probably be too late for most of the livestock farms, markets, abattoirs, and all the rest of the infrastructure needed that is still rapidly disappearing.

 

[Muddyroads]

I'm fairly sure we are in complete agreement with each other on the problems , the question is, what's the solution ? I'm saying it is to break up the cartel, i'm not sure what you're suggesting.

How do you suggest this could happen?

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

I'm fairly sure we are in complete agreement with each other on the problems , the question is, what's the solution ? I'm saying it is to break up the cartel, i'm not sure what you're suggesting.

It is also strongly hinted at in the second National Food Strategy report. Excessive market share is one of the issues it raises.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

How do you suggest this could happen?

Isn't that what the Competition Commission exists to do?

Supposedly....

 

[delilah]

Surely “breaking up the cartel” can only happen if there is the political will to do so, and if the population of the country are willing to make a radical and wholesale change to their shopping and eating habits? They both seem as likely as an iceberg in Hades, .

No need for the public to change their shopping habits in any way. Brief summary attached, explored in (extensive lol) detail on here.
https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/tescorona.313517/

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Because temps went from an abnormally cold phase to a 'just above mean' period?
If that's what you take from this graph @CJ there isn't much hope for you mate.
Was that heat wave in Canada not the ultimate game changer for denialists?
Records broken across a huge area by 10 degrees. 10 fudging degrees! it's unheard of, unprecedented in human history, and frightened me.

Pretending it isn't happening looks stoopid, and pretending it isn't very probably due to the evident hugely risen CO2 levels is naïve.
We need to keep the facts straight, to be able to counter the hooey.
Fix your attention on the methane argument, be ready to sink it with the basic chemistry whenever it's made.
That is where OUR battle is.

In a 2012 paper, Miller et al. link the Little Ice Age to an "unusual 50-year-long episode with four large sulfur-rich explosive eruptions, each with global sulfate loading >60 Tg" and notes that "large changes in solar irradiance are not required."[7]

Throughout the Little Ice Age, the world experienced heightened volcanic activity.[118] When a volcano erupts, its ash reaches high into the atmosphere and can spread to cover the whole earth. The ash cloud blocks out some of the incoming solar radiation, which leads to worldwide cooling for up to two years after an eruption. Also emitted by eruptions is sulfur in the form of sulfur dioxide. When sulfur dioxide reaches the stratosphere, the gas turns into sulfuric acid particles, which reflect the sun's rays. That further reduces the amount of radiation reaching the Earth's surface.

A recent study found that an especially massive tropical volcanic eruption in 1257, possibly of the now-extinct Mount Samalas near Mount Rinjani, both in Lombok, Indonesia, followed by three smaller eruptions in 1268, 1275, and 1284, did not allow the climate to recover. That may have caused the initial cooling, and the 1452–1453 eruption of Kuwae in Vanuatu triggered a second pulse of cooling.[7] The cold summers can be maintained by sea-ice/ocean feedbacks long after volcanic aerosols are removed.

Other volcanoes that erupted during the era and may have contributed to the cooling include Billy Mitchell (c. 1580), Huaynaputina (1600), Mount Parker (1641), Long Island (Papua New Guinea) (ca. 1660), and Laki (1783).[24] The 1815 eruption of Tambora, also in Indonesia, blanketed the atmosphere with ash, and the following year came to be known as the Year Without a Summer,[119] when frost and snow were reported in June and July in both New England and Northern Europe.

 

[C.J]

Because temps went from an abnormally cold phase to a 'just above mean' period?
If that's what you take from this graph @CJ there isn't much hope for you mate.
Was that heat wave in Canada not the ultimate game changer for denialists?
Records broken across a huge area by 10 degrees. 10 fudging degrees! it's unheard of, unprecedented in human history, and frightened me.

Pretending it isn't happening looks stoopid, and pretending it isn't very probably due to the evident hugely risen CO2 levels is naïve.
We need to keep the facts straight, to be able to counter the hooey.
Fix your attention on the methane argument, be ready to sink it with the basic chemistry whenever it's made.
That is where OUR battle is.

I'm not pretending that it isn't happening - the graph goes upto 15th of September 2021 so Includes the modern warm period .

The fact that you write " very probably due to the hugely risen CO2 " tells me you are not 100% convinced that the science is settled.

You are correct - It was cold at the end of the 17th century , because of low solar activity.

Time will tell whether it is CO2 or solar activity ,that causes climate change - then we will know who is STOOPID

 

[delilah]

It is also strongly hinted at in the second National Food Strategy report. Excessive market share is one of the issues it raises.

Have sent Mr Dimbleby a follow up reminding him that this has to be at the heart of any food strategy action.

Isn't that what the Competition Commission exists to do?

That made me laugh that did

 

[Ffermer Bach]

Because temps went from an abnormally cold phase to a 'just above mean' period?
If that's what you take from this graph @CJ there isn't much hope for you mate.
Was that heat wave in Canada not the ultimate game changer for denialists?
Records broken across a huge area by 10 degrees. 10 fudging degrees! it's unheard of, unprecedented in human history, and frightened me.

Pretending it isn't happening looks stoopid, and pretending it isn't very probably due to the evident hugely risen CO2 levels is naïve.
We need to keep the facts straight, to be able to counter the hooey.
Fix your attention on the methane argument, be ready to sink it with the basic chemistry whenever it's made.
That is where OUR battle is.

I think you may be onto something there, when Europeans arrived in South America, diseases killed over 90% of the Indians. Prior to their arrival the Amazon area was farmed, after over 90% died, the Amazon re grew (and pulled CO2 from the atmosphere). This altered global climate (creating an abnormally cold phase mentioned above)

 

[Ffermer Bach]

I'm not pretending that it isn't happening - the graph goes upto 15th of September 2021 so Includes the modern warm period .

The fact that you write " very probably due to the hugely risen CO2 " tells me you are not 100% convinced that the science is settled.

You are correct - It was cold at the end of the 17th century , because of low solar activity.


View attachment 986223


Time will tell whether it is CO2 or solar activity ,that causes climate change - then we will know who is STOOPID

Science is never settled, always under review and new discoveries alter what we knew was "right"