The great global warming scam, worth a listen I think.

[Bogweevil]

Simple primary school science !

This may help you to understand:

Unlike carbon dioxide, which is relatively stable and by definition has a GWP value of one, methane is a live-fast, die-young greenhouse gas.

Methane traps very large quantities of heat in the first decade after it is released in to the atmosphere, but quickly breaks down.

After a decade, most emitted methane has reacted with ozone to form carbon dioxide and water. This carbon dioxide continues to heat the climate for hundreds or even thousands of years.

Emitting methane will always be worse than emitting the same quantity of carbon dioxide, no matter the time scale.

How much worse depends on the time period used to average out its effects. The most commonly used averaging period is 100 years, but this is not the only choice, and it is not wrong to choose another.

As a starting point, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change’s (IPCC) Fifth Assessment Report from 2013 says methane heats the climate by 28 times more than carbon dioxide when averaged over 100 years and 84 times more when averaged over 20 years.

Source: https://theconversation.com/climate...atmosphere-but-leaves-long-term-damage-145040

 

[C.J]

https://vimeo.com/14357880

A short video on the history of the climate , since the last Ice age - modern warming is not unusual.

 

[banjo]

 

[banjo]

This may help you to understand:

Unlike carbon dioxide, which is relatively stable and by definition has a GWP value of one, methane is a live-fast, die-young greenhouse gas.

Methane traps very large quantities of heat in the first decade after it is released in to the atmosphere, but quickly breaks down.

After a decade, most emitted methane has reacted with ozone to form carbon dioxide and water. This carbon dioxide continues to heat the climate for hundreds or even thousands of years.

Emitting methane will always be worse than emitting the same quantity of carbon dioxide, no matter the time scale.

How much worse depends on the time period used to average out its effects. The most commonly used averaging period is 100 years, but this is not the only choice, and it is not wrong to choose another.

As a starting point, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change’s (IPCC) Fifth Assessment Report from 2013 says methane heats the climate by 28 times more than carbon dioxide when averaged over 100 years and 84 times more when averaged over 20 years.

Source: https://theconversation.com/climate...atmosphere-but-leaves-long-term-damage-145040

There is a minuscule amount of methane in the atmosphere, out of the 0.015 ppm of greenhouse gasses its than 1% of that and then that dissipates over time.
your argument is complete and utter nonsense and if you want to lower methane on the planet maybe your for forcing people not to have children because they produce as Much methane as anything.
your lot have told a complete pile of lies for over a decade and currently the earth has cooled to 1980s levelled not warmed !

 

[Breakthru]

There is a minuscule amount of methane in the atmosphere, out of the 0.015 ppm of greenhouse gasses its than 1% of that and then that dissipates over time.
your argument is complete and utter nonsense and if you want to lower methane on the planet maybe your for forcing people not to have children because they produce as Much methane as anything.
your lot have told a complete pile of lies for over a decade and currently the earth has cooled to 1980s levelled not warmed !

Personally I don't think we are as warm as the 80's. We just had colder winters so the averages are the same.

 

[GeorgeC1]

Personally I don't think we are as warm as the 80's. We just had colder winters so the averages are the same.

The global average temperature is rising, which paradoxically may lead to colder/more chaotic winters in Western Europe as the ice melts it floods the gulfstream with cooler fresh water, reducing the salinity of the water making it less efficient at transferring heat to us.

 

[Cowabunga]

The global average temperature is rising, which paradoxically may lead to colder/more chaotic winters in Western Europe as the ice melts it floods the gulfstream with cooler fresh water, reducing the salinity of the water making it less efficient at transferring heat to us.

So now its only warming in the northern hemisphere in places where ice is melting.
One wonders why the narrative changes to suit.

 

[GeorgeC1]

So now its only warming in the northern hemisphere in places where ice is melting.
One wonders why the narrative changes to suit.

No, just goes to show how complicated Climate is, Western Europe is only as relatively moderate and mild as it is due to the Gulf Stream.

it effects the entire globe some areas are increasingly becoming deserts, other places like UK might get wetter and more unpredictable/extreme weather, the more we study the more we find out how interconnected everything else is.

 

[C.J]

No, just goes to show how complicated Climate is, Western Europe is only as relatively moderate and mild as it is due to the Gulf Stream.

it effects the entire globe some areas are increasingly becoming deserts, other places like UK might get wetter and more unpredictable/extreme weather, the more we study the more we find out how interconnected everything else is.

The Nasa Vegetation Index doesn't agree with you.

CO2 is good - it's plant food and greening the planet.

 

[banjo]

The former leader of extinction rebellion being interviewed today by Andrew Neil, this is the nonsense you hear off an idiot, it’s actually embarrassing to watch !

 

[Bogweevil]

Western Canada heat wave expected to break daily, all-time temperature record

Climate scientists say that if we don't change our behaviour, heat events will become more frequent
Courtney Dickson · CBC News · Posted: Jun 25, 2021 7:49 PM PT | Last Updated: June 27



What's causing the unprecedented heat wave in Western Canada
2 days ago
3:52
David Phillips, senior climatologist for Environment Canada, says the high-pressure heat dome over parts of Western Canada creates an effect that's like 'putting a lid on boiling water.' 3:52


A heat wave stretching across Western Canada, from British Columbia into southern Saskatchewan and up through Yukon and the Northwest Territories, is set to break daily and all-time temperature records much earlier in the year than usual.

High pressure is trapped under a "heat dome," unable to be pushed through the country by wind, creating long-lasting high temperatures wherever the pressure sits, according to Armel Castellan, warning preparedness meteorologist with Environment Canada.

 

[C.J]

And for balance , (it wasn't in the Guardian or on the BBC) , There have been 222 new all time cold records set in the USA during 2021 (up to 2nd of June ) yet only 1 new all time high temperature record.

 

[Dave645]

The Nasa Vegetation Index doesn't agree with you.

CO2 is good - it's plant food and greening the planet.

Your right the green index is rising but they were also right, how can this be, well it’s cold areas warming up going green, and dry hot areas going not green, while the balance has been towards greening, how much is just C02 how much is changing temps near the poles is the real question.
One thing is true plants will grow especially trees when we increase the amount of what they consume upwards but that’s not to say it’s all positive. Having millions of acres of perma frost start to green is not 100% likely to be a positive sign.
also the fact dispite the growing greening which would normally help balance out the planets C02 levels it still rises.

weather and climate are linked, but the results of those links are less predicable, so when polar weather moves north or south and makes new records it’s not just weather it’s climate change because mean while those poles were at higher temps than normal because weather and climate moved the normaly semi stable weather over the poles to shift.

instability in the normal weather patterns and more extremes are in the climate predictions, these are just weather, but the underlying driver seems to be the rising temps the planet as a whole is experiencing, if there was just a scientific explanation for those rising temps. . .
I have yet to see any science to explain the rising temps trend other than C02 the trillion dollar fossil fuel industry has yet to find it, not for the lack of trying, or the money to do so.

I will say, with the money and power the fossil fuel industry has, if one shred of science pointed to C02 not being the underlying factor they would be shouting about it all over the main stream media, and making sure everyone knows about it, they would get it pear reviewed and publicised. The lack of this says it all. Yet they do spend there money to quietly suppress change to laws and the push to renewable tech. Banning domestic roof top solar in some states in the USA, dragging of feet over alternatives to ICE cars, etc etc.

I don’t worry about the planet, I worry about or civilisation as we know it, I personally think we are selling or children’s children down the river, for a few pieces of silver. We all are so fixed in our way of life, that when the writing is on the wall so to speak, we just walk past it, or worse deny it.
The writing is on the wall but some people are spray painting over it in a bid to continue as normal even when they them selves know the result. Because making money is all that’s important.

I can tell you now it’s the fossil fuel industry pushing the needle to blame farming for climate change, because it take the focuse off them.
Don’t ban ICE cars until 2040 because if we ban red meat now we can have ICE cars longer. . .
I personally don’t think grass feed animals should even be considered a problem, yet somehow they are public enemy number one, in the main stream media. . . Now why is that a who is making that happen. . .

climate scientists adverted a cutting in the use of fossil fuels but that seems have been shifted in the media by someone. . . If I had to guess it’s not just the vegan lobby it’s the so called special intrests groups that are fanning those flames getting the media spotlight to point in other directions for the right amount of cash. . .

 

[C.J]

So interglacials happen roughly every 100,000 years and last about 10-20 thousand years.

Burning fossil fuels didn't bring us out of the last Ice age 15-20 thousand years ago , nor the many before that.

 

[Dave645]

So interglacials happen roughly every 100,000 years and last about 10-20 thousand years.

Burning fossil fuels didn't bring us out of the last Ice age 15-20 thousand years ago , nor the many before that.

Your right, but what sent us into them and took us out, something changed even if it did it naturally.
And looking at that chart we should already be passing the peak of the temp rise if it was natural the curve is not the natural one we have seen in the past? The peaks are much faster and tend to boom then bust very quickly this one we are in, it’s the doing the same even on your own chart, it doesn’t look natural?

 

[C.J]

Its all about the cycles.

Lets say it was 10 degrees last night and its now 20 degrees - now that's not global warming because we know it will be 10 degrees again tonight.

Like wise Janauary average temperatue could be 5 degrees and june could be 15 degrees but we know that's not global warming because it will be back to 5 degrees next January.

So it is usual to compare 30 years of data when looking for climate change.

Lets take the 20th century - there was warming from 1900 to 1940,then cooling from 1940 to 1980 followed by warming into this current century . Forty year cycles ? could we see 40 years of cooling from 2020 to 2060.Scientists in the 1970's were warning us that we were heading into another ice age.

Satellite temperature records only go back to 1979 so unfortunately we don't have the 1940-80 cooling to complete the cycle.

Like wise CET records only go back to 1659 so they only show the warming since the little ice age , but they don't show the cooling since the medieval warm period.

 

[C.J]

So, there were no thermometers 3000 years ago , but it was obviously warmer than it is now.




Ancient tree stumps found under Breiðamerkurjökull glacier in Southeast Iceland are confirmed to be roughly 3,000 years old.


A specialist believes the remarkably well-preserved stumps were part of a massive forest that disappeared after a long period of a warm climate.
One of the tree stumps was found in Breiðamerkursandur a couple of months ago, and once it was being salvaged a second, larger one was found. The smaller one was sent for examination while the larger will be examined at a later time.
Examinations revealed that the tree stump died very quickly at 89-years-old in the month of June. Nearby sediments and data suggest that the glacier itself was the culprit.
The tree stumps are from a period when Iceland was covered in forests. Even though 9th century Norse settlers reported vast forests across the country, it is believed that 3,000 years ago, the forests were much larger, even reaching the highlands. Approximately 500 BC, the climate became colder and glaciers began to form, destroying parts of the forests.
The 3,000-year-old remains of the forest are very well preserved and will be researched thoroughly. “It is absolutely incredible just how well preserved this tree stump is, having been buried under a glacier and that it still looks so whole, as opposed to being all wrinkled up like many of the specimens we have found.” Once examinations conclude, the water will be extracted from the tree stump and it will be filled with wax instead, allowing it to be exhibited.

 

[Bogweevil]

Scientists have published more than 350 peer-reviewed studies looking at weather extremes around the world, from heatwaves in Sweden and droughts in South Africa to flooding in Bangladesh and hurricanes in the Caribbean. The result is mounting evidence that human activity is raising the risk of some types of extreme weather, especially those linked to heat.

https://www.carbonbrief.org/mapped-how-climate-change-affects-extreme-weather-around-the-world

 

[Dave645]

So, there were no thermometers 3000 years ago , but it was obviously warmer than it is now.




Ancient tree stumps found under Breiðamerkurjökull glacier in Southeast Iceland are confirmed to be roughly 3,000 years old.


A specialist believes the remarkably well-preserved stumps were part of a massive forest that disappeared after a long period of a warm climate.
One of the tree stumps was found in Breiðamerkursandur a couple of months ago, and once it was being salvaged a second, larger one was found. The smaller one was sent for examination while the larger will be examined at a later time.
Examinations revealed that the tree stump died very quickly at 89-years-old in the month of June. Nearby sediments and data suggest that the glacier itself was the culprit.
The tree stumps are from a period when Iceland was covered in forests. Even though 9th century Norse settlers reported vast forests across the country, it is believed that 3,000 years ago, the forests were much larger, even reaching the highlands. Approximately 500 BC, the climate became colder and glaciers began to form, destroying parts of the forests.
The 3,000-year-old remains of the forest are very well preserved and will be researched thoroughly. “It is absolutely incredible just how well preserved this tree stump is, having been buried under a glacier and that it still looks so whole, as opposed to being all wrinkled up like many of the specimens we have found.” Once examinations conclude, the water will be extracted from the tree stump and it will be filled with wax instead, allowing it to be exhibited.

And your conclusion is . . .
the one I am looking for is if it happened again would we all survive it?
Keeping in mind the evidence is strong around the time of the last warming, the Roman Empire fell and we did kind of fall into what was called the dark ages. . .
my last question, if we could do something to reduce the extremes of the new warming event, why would we not. . ?

 

[C.J]

Humans thrive during climate optimums - its the subsequent cooling that causes the fall of empires.

Analysis of tree ring data and ice cores suggest that the Minoan warm period (3000 years ago) was as warm as the Holocene climatic optimum (6000-8000 years ago).The Roman warm period(2000 years ago) was not quite so warm and the Medieval warm period (1000 years ago) cooler again.

So where does our current warm period fit in - there were no thermometers so we have to use historic records and archaeology. If the Vikings were growing barley on greenland during the medeival warm period, could you do that today ? Sea levels were 1.5-2.0 meters higher than now, during the medieval warm period - there are castles built on the coast that are now some way inland, and archaeologic evidence of jettys that high tide no longer reaches.so we must assume that we are not yet as warm as the MWP.

These 5000 year chinese temperature records show that the little ice age (1300-1850AD)
was not just a European event , it was also the coldest period in the last 5000 years.

How do you interpret the top graph ? is it 300 years of warming or 3000 years of cooling ?