The three main challenges of the modern farmer

[mikkelebbesen]

I don't think we Dutch had a system of "wealth creation and money", it was more " There is no opportunity in the Netherlands, here's a one way ticket, just don't return!" The ones that came to NZ ,this was their "Plan B" and there was no "Plan C", you had to make it work, there was no other option!!! You also have to remember most of the generation that came here in the 50's grew up in the war ,so when they got to NZ, they were not held back by the previous generation, and "risk" is only a four letter word, because when you have next to nothing , you have nothing to loose.
I think even into the 80's ,the perception it you were not too bright was anything in agriculture was an option, and that working in agriculture wasn't really a "business".
As for school ,our secondary school had a "numpty class" ( As like on last weeks "800 Words") for form 1, most of them never amounted to much, but if the school had put in a bit more effort it could have been life changing for those in those classes.
Back when I was at school, there focus seemed to be in getting students to go to university, at the expense of getting students into apprenticeships and trades, the problem is ,not all students want or even desire to go to university.
As an employer you should be encouraging and challenging your employees to be the best they can be, so they can make that next step on the farming ladder, not holding them back.
As for urbanization being a challenge to agriculture, ffs don't get me started on turning "productive land" in to poorly planned, overpriced residential property, its a f!@#ing big problem up here

In your view, how do you think we can reverse the development of youth being discouraged to go into farming? How do motivate new farmers and teach them how to do? And let's assume the traditional school system is not going to help us achieve it.

 

[mikkelebbesen]

1 Supermarkets rigging prices of produce
2 Supermarkets rigging prices of produce
3 Supermarkets rigging prices of produce

Thank you for your input, Banjo. You say that supermarket are rigging prices. How? And how would you suggest that farmers overcome this challenge?

 

[mikkelebbesen]

NZ has turned into UK and holland with investors now in charge of the property/land market.
Young farmers used to have a chance in nz, but not now.
Google john mackenzie whose statue sits above palmerston in otago who set up a system to benefit everyone, sadly swept away in the eighties as thatcherism swept the world

Thank you for your comments, glasshouse. Allow me dig a bit deeper. What is the problem with investors being in charge of the property/land market?

 

[mikkelebbesen]

1. Other farmers
2. Politicians
3. unCivil servants

JohnGalway, thank you for sharing your views. I we go into each of the three challenges, why do see it as a challenge? Please elaborate.

 

[mikkelebbesen]

I'd disagree, young farmers still have a chance now in NZ, but ammitedly they have to be more business orientated and not scared of risk and hard work, and avoiding the perils of shiney new utes and tractors. Its not easy , but wasn't exactly easy for those in the 80's or 60's either.

Good to know, you still see a hope for young farmers. You mention that they have to be more business-oriented. What does business-oriented mean to you?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Could you explain me what a discussion group is? If it is somewhat like what we have in Denmark, it is a group in which farmers share their experiences with regards to animal husbandry, crop production or finances. We call them "expi-groups".

Yes our groups are quite similar to that.
Our dairy farmers possibly started the trend, the local one is largely sheep and a couple of us run cattle too. Really just an idea sharing/benchmarking/critical thinking exercise, our one has a facilitator farm advisor guy who asks a few questions and types up "minutes" etc.
Amazing what you learn when you have to explain and justify things to other farmers, it's great to have people pick holes in your plans- they often end up much sharper than what two minds can create.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

The dog used to be man's best friend. I wonder if it has been replaced by Doctor Google .. Interesting that you do not only get your knowledge from forums like this one, but also from forums dominated by smallholders. What is it they have to offer that is different and more helpful compared to regular agricultural forums? And do you have any experience paying for agricultural knowledge online, e.g. an online course?

The contrast I find with the smallholders forums as opposed to the 'proper farmers' (where's my tin hat now)
Almost none of the smallholders have any background in farming at all; most have simply been successful in a town job and bought 10 acres in the country, so they don't have tradition or preconceptions to blinker them
They want to have things require minimal input, especially time input, which often rules out breeding sheep etc or planting orchards
They don't get cross when the word "organic" is used
They have no gear, often not even a pair of boots, and ask the forum how to generate an income off a very small area

Compared to the detail that real farmers go into, the lifestylers often just want to know how best to keep their weeds down, or how to approach a farmer for a couple of weaners, how to subdivide an area etc, it's often very different to the matters discussed on here. Basic and broad

With regards to online courses, I have no experience with them.
My high school, in the heart of South Otago, had one student wishing to take an ag/hort qualification at year 12, me! So I did the course via correspondence school, and sat in on the accounting class, ended up taking and passing both end of year exams no shortage of work based learning qualifications here though. Primary ITO runs full classes all year around, sadly most people I know never get up to the business management level qualification. It has a very high dropout rate, probably due to the time factor as much as anything. That part worries me, as there is only so far that "cows and grass" knowledge gets you.

 

[FonterraFarmer]

In your view, how do you think we can reverse the development of youth being discouraged to go into farming? How do motivate new farmers and teach them how to do? And let's assume the traditional school system is not going to help us achieve it.

Needs to be addressed at secondary school, the old perception by the education system that "everyone has to go to university" has to be challenged, not just towards farming , but to trades like builders, electricians, plumbers and the like. University degrees, while some people veiw that they are essential to be successful, are at best, conforming to a preconcieved standard to meet the criteria in order to pass. Just like employing people, you select the ones who are the most suitable, not the neccessarily the ones with the "on paper" qualifications, odds are if you select staff just on qualifications your more that likely missing on employing the right person.

 

[FonterraFarmer]

Good to know, you still see a hope for young farmers. You mention that they have to be more business-oriented. What does business-oriented mean to you?

Being "business orientated" to me means you have to run the farm , just like any other business, it needs to have cash flow, must meet all legal requirements from everything from tax to employing staff, evironmental and animal welfare standards, produce/product standards, and run effectively at an unsubsidied profit.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Being "business orientated" to me means you have to run the farm , just like any other business, it needs to have cash flow, must meet all legal requirements from everything from tax to employing staff, evironmental and animal welfare standards, produce/product standards, and run effectively at an unsubsidied profit.

That is the real difference between training aimed at farm workers / junior managers and farm owners/business managers. The former just need to be aware of the idea of cashflow planning, selling contracts, hedging risk, crop management plans etc etc. The latter really should understand financial and performance management these days. I strongly suspect that many farmers here never do a cashflow forecast or review the past year's performance

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I went through the dairy side of our primary ITO (then AgITO) courses here. There seemed to be a definite gap, as you describe well above, the level 4 module neatly avoided anything to do with money, whereas the level 5 production management course had the whole financial side, taxation etc.
It seems to me, that to learn to actually operate a successful farm business, there is a hole; but then here is a whole forum with threads involving financial matters, often breaking into argument. I'm exceptionally grateful to a couple of business mentors (both Dutch as it so happens) who really know how to teach someone how to succeed in an industry that is perhaps standing still.
I don't imagine anything in a classroom or online could match 3 years working for a young determined sharemilker, my success was his success.
I shudder when I ponder where our next crop of young beef and sheep farmers, horticulturalists etc, will learn the fine line of business. Dairy is slightly more predictable maybe? The marketing in NZ is very simple... the margins are probably as good as sheep in a poor year.
Possibly the best option is to learn to run a business in another area, then go farming, but you have to want it- really really want it- as the town pays very well.

 

[banjo]

Thank you for your input, Banjo. You say that supermarket are rigging prices. How? And how would you suggest that farmers overcome this challenge?

It's a hard one to answer, most farmers who sell produce know it is undervalued and farm sub brings the profit ( or lack of it ) back up, but the supermarkets are using this as a tool to rig the markets. Importing of food from other country's before using our own and then expecting our farmers to compete with different stock regulations.
I'm afraid the big elephant in the room is food should be dearer, at the moment food isn't as important as a phone bill to most. I think food should be more expensive thus creating less wastage and creating a more thoughtful process when buying. Farmers would be better off, public would be better off and also farmers wouldn't need the sub to survive.
One example of rigging is the milk, watch the program the milk man and this explains it well.

 

[mikkelebbesen]

The contrast I find with the smallholders forums as opposed to the 'proper farmers' (where's my tin hat now)
Almost none of the smallholders have any background in farming at all; most have simply been successful in a town job and bought 10 acres in the country, so they don't have tradition or preconceptions to blinker them
They want to have things require minimal input, especially time input, which often rules out breeding sheep etc or planting orchards
They don't get cross when the word "organic" is used
They have no gear, often not even a pair of boots, and ask the forum how to generate an income off a very small area

Compared to the detail that real farmers go into, the lifestylers often just want to know how best to keep their weeds down, or how to approach a farmer for a couple of weaners, how to subdivide an area etc, it's often very different to the matters discussed on here. Basic and broad

With regards to online courses, I have no experience with them.
My high school, in the heart of South Otago, had one student wishing to take an ag/hort qualification at year 12, me! So I did the course via correspondence school, and sat in on the accounting class, ended up taking and passing both end of year exams no shortage of work based learning qualifications here though. Primary ITO runs full classes all year around, sadly most people I know never get up to the business management level qualification. It has a very high dropout rate, probably due to the time factor as much as anything. That part worries me, as there is only so far that "cows and grass" knowledge gets you.

Smallholders go for basic and broad, while real farmers focus more on details. Could you provide with an example of a more detailed question? And is there a difference in where you search for information, depending on whether your question is practical or of a more theoretical character?

And as a side note. I actually wanted to go study in Otago a few years back. However, they changed from intakes twice a year to only one intake a year, which would have forced me to wait for another half a year. So, NZ is still a place I need to go to.

 

[mikkelebbesen]

Being "business orientated" to me means you have to run the farm , just like any other business, it needs to have cash flow, must meet all legal requirements from everything from tax to employing staff, evironmental and animal welfare standards, produce/product standards, and run effectively at an unsubsidied profit.

And where would they go to acquire these skills? Or what would you have done to get this knowledge, if you were in the shoes of a young farmer today?

 

[mikkelebbesen]

That is the real difference between training aimed at farm workers / junior managers and farm owners/business managers. The former just need to be aware of the idea of cashflow planning, selling contracts, hedging risk, crop management plans etc etc. The latter really should understand financial and performance management these days. I strongly suspect that many farmers here never do a cashflow forecast or review the past year's performance

Thank you for your input. If I may ask you the same question, as I did FonterraFarmer: where would young farmers go to acquire these skills?

 

[mikkelebbesen]

I went through the dairy side of our primary ITO (then AgITO) courses here. There seemed to be a definite gap, as you describe well above, the level 4 module neatly avoided anything to do with money, whereas the level 5 production management course had the whole financial side, taxation etc.
It seems to me, that to learn to actually operate a successful farm business, there is a hole; but then here is a whole forum with threads involving financial matters, often breaking into argument. I'm exceptionally grateful to a couple of business mentors (both Dutch as it so happens) who really know how to teach someone how to succeed in an industry that is perhaps standing still.
I don't imagine anything in a classroom or online could match 3 years working for a young determined sharemilker, my success was his success.
I shudder when I ponder where our next crop of young beef and sheep farmers, horticulturalists etc, will learn the fine line of business. Dairy is slightly more predictable maybe? The marketing in NZ is very simple... the margins are probably as good as sheep in a poor year.
Possibly the best option is to learn to run a business in another area, then go farming, but you have to want it- really really want it- as the town pays very well.

Once again, thank you for your views Pete. Farming is a matter of practice. And it is a practice-based occupation, no doubt. There's so much knowledge out there, if only we could manage to put into the rights hands in the right format. By the way, does ITO mean Industry Training Organization?

 

[FonterraFarmer]

And where would they go to acquire these skills? Or what would you have done to get this knowledge, if you were in the shoes of a young farmer today?

Try "Primary ITO"

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Once again, thank you for your views Pete. Farming is a matter of practice. And it is a practice-based occupation, no doubt. There's so much knowledge out there, if only we could manage to put into the rights hands in the right format. By the way, does ITO mean Industry Training Organization?

Yes! It was rebranded a couple of years ago, and branched out a little from its largely agricultural roots. They run sheep and beef, dairy, horticultural and turf courses to name a few, and lots of one and two day courses as well, eg effluent and mastitis management type courses. They do a fantastic job of preparing the courses IMO, I just feel they almost need a beginner's agribusiness management course. I have recommended it in my course feedback.
Here in NZ we have Beef&Lamb and DairyNZ with heaps of online resources as well, which I use quite a lot.
It's good to have all these tools and resources at your disposal!

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Thank you for your input. If I may ask you the same question, as I did FonterraFarmer: where would young farmers go to acquire these skills?

I did HND Agriculture at Harper Adams college in the 1980's and these management skills were covered in the course. We actually prepared a set of profit and loss accounts and a balance sheet from cashbook entries. We spent some time preparing and understanding gross margins as well and had to prepare a farm plan and bid for a tenancy. I learnt alot. Whether agriculture courses cover it as well now I don't know.

We did a week long exchange trip to an agriculture college in Arhus as well. I found the commission with Denmark interesting.

 

[mikkelebbesen]

I did HND Agriculture at Harper Adams college in the 1980's and these management skills were covered in the course. We actually prepared a set of profit and loss accounts and a balance sheet from cashbook entries. We spent some time preparing and understanding gross margins as well and had to prepare a farm plan and bid for a tenancy. I learnt alot. Whether agriculture courses cover it as well now I don't know.

We did a week long exchange trip to an agriculture college in Arhus as well. I found the commission with Denmark interesting.

The agriculture college must have been what was at that time known as "Vejlby Landbrugsskole". It still exists, but it has been renamed into "Jordbrugets Uddannelsescenter Aarhus". Now they also run horticulture and foresting courses. It actually think there has been a lot of exchange between Denmark and the UK, when it comes to students in agriculture. My dad once went to the UK as well as part of an exchange trip. And just last week, a former colleague of mine returned from Scotland, where she did an exchange trip with some agricultural management students.

So, you had your basic education in the 80's. Where do you ask for advice or "update" yourself on agricultural knowledge today? And have you ever made use of any online sources/courses, apart being a member of this forum?