The transition from BPS to ELMS

[Jackov Altraids]

They could offer a top up on prime stock which should help right back down the line
Pretty simple to set up and run too plus it helps the ‘active’ farmer?

I think that the payment would be on the wrong end of the line. The processors would just knock it off their bidding.
It would be better to have it paid on registering suckled calves. Seems to be helping the Scottish.

It would be better to have no payments/ grants at all and just have a fair market price but the government are making it quite clear they don't want that to happen. They have said this week that they are going to make it easier to import food to keep costs down which is basically subsidising our competitors.
While they still increase our costs and remove our subsidy.

 

[Jackov Altraids]

Elms isn't a replacement for bps which was an expensive EU scheme. Better get used to the idea, take some of the elms money and run your farm for profitability.

Every one keeps talking about food going up, surely that puts farmers in a strong position?

I think that what I've highlighted, could be an oxymoron.

We have waited for decades for the price of food to rise to a level that makes farming sustainable without subsidy. We now see how it was being deliberately kept low and and how desperate they are to keep it down.

 

[Regenerator1]

Backwards

Or crawl backwards whilst whipping yourself and quoting psalms

 

[aangus]

Can someone tell me what Boris as actually offered working farmers please

 

[jendan]

My agent told me years ago that I would likely get a third of the money through elms that bps has paid
I was told last week that the agricultural pot of money is the same but it’s to be distributed differently
That doesn’t really add up considering we have a cut in bps money already

A third of the money will probably go to agents and hangers on to administer ever more complicated schemes.

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

I think that what I've highlighted, could be an oxymoron.

We have waited for decades for the price of food to rise to a level that makes farming sustainable without subsidy. We now see how it was being deliberately kept low and and how desperate they are to keep it down.

Yes but market forces will prevail. If wheat doesn't go up enough to pay for the fertiliser for example, the following shortage will create a price rise all of its own.

The food industry has used cheap imports to keep prices down (but not for the consumer who has always paid full whack). Those cheap imports don't look so cheap or plentiful now and further price rises look inevitable.

 

[Bury the Trash]

Imagine you were offered the job of your dreams.
The only downside was a long commute requiring the use of a car.
You have to take it up and give it a go and you love it although the expenses mean it doesn't pay well.
This means you are considering a move to be closer to the job when a neighbour starts the same commute and offers to contribute to your travel expenses if they can have a lift.
The contribution isn't huge but is a game changer in allowing you to continue life as you love it.

As things currently stand, expecting farmers to carry on farming as they do now with ELMS after removing BPS would be like the neighbour still expecting to get a lift to work for the same contribution after you had lost your job.


Discuss.

The World is in constant change, get used to it, get over it, make the most of it. Life is very short .

 

[Regenerator1]

The World is in constant change, get used to it, get over it, make the most of it. Life is very short .

Or move to the third paradyme and buy a plough.. makes you feel good

 

[Jackov Altraids]

The World is in constant change, get used to it, get over it, make the most of it. Life is very short .

Indeed.
I thought this thread would highlight that and make people consider what is likely to happen.
What do you think will happen?

 

[Jrp221]

Backwards

Over barbed wire.

 

[The Son]

My thoughts are this, the ELMS price has been set low to encourage farmers not to claim, as there just isn't enough in it. Government will then say well, we have offered farmers money, but they haven't taken it, so they obviously don't need it!

I am going to claim everything available for the time being.

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

My thoughts are this, the ELMS price has been set low to encourage farmers not to claim, as there just isn't enough in it. Government will then say well, we have offered farmers money, but they haven't taken it, so they obviously don't need it!

I am going to claim everything available for the time being.

I don't think it's very competitive with prices as they are. Even an average wheat crop will gross £1800 to £2000.

Some of the elms options are low cost, low risk and quite well paid though.

 

[delilah]

What do you think they think will happen to the farms of those that don't carry on?

They think that you will lift the gates off and throw them in the hedge, so that the last person standing in the district can ranch it.
That will be the farmer who has sold development land and is able to ride the storm until the rest of you have gone. They will rear 10,000hd/yr under contract to one of the cartel. To be hauled 1000 miles from farm to plate and sold with a 'carbon neutral' sticker on it.

And what do you think will happen?

same.

 

[CornishTone]

My thoughts are this, the ELMS price has been set low to encourage farmers not to claim, as there just isn't enough in it. Government will then say well, we have offered farmers money, but they haven't taken it, so they obviously don't need it!

I'm afraid you're bang on.

A little while ago I spoke to a chap who spent 20 years in the RPA and recently came home to run the family farm. He's adamant the scheme is being deliberately set up to fail. And once it's obvious that there is very low take up, the money can be syphoned off into other departments and they will simply cherry pick the bits of "public good" they want to keep, put it into law and make us do it anyway, just without the money. And once the money's all gone to more deserving causes, Red Tractor is being set up as a "privatised" industry regulator to police it all on their behalf, thus dispensing with the need for the puss filled mire that is the RPA and, even better, we get to pay for it...

...or those that are left get to pay for it! After all, neither government, processors nor retailors want to deal with lots of small, awkward farmers. It's inefficient don't you know? So, the small ones will leave (be pushed out) and the big ones will get ever bigger and Boris' chums will become more "efficient". So when the floppy haired berk visited Cornwall last week, he didn't visit a small family beef farm did he? Nope, he visited one of the biggest veg outfits in the country and told them to grow more veg!

Or am I just cynical?!!!

 

[Bury the Trash]

They think that you will lift the gates off and throw them in the hedge, so that the last person standing in the district can ranch it.
That will be the farmer who has sold development land and is able to ride the storm until the rest of you have gone. They will rear 10,000hd/yr under contract to one of the cartel. To be hauled 1000 miles from farm to plate and sold with a 'carbon neutral' sticker on it.

Indeed.
I thought this thread would highlight that and make people consider what is likely to happen.
What do you think will happen?

Generally .....see above Delilah post, as has happened for sometime now.

@delilah there are many forms of diversification that can help keep a farm going and that's been a thing since time immemorial .

 

[Bury the Trash]

Or move to the third paradyme and buy a plough.. makes you feel good

if you want to buy a plough then by all means go for it.

Me personally, i really. really wish to spend 2 or 3 weeks in Northern France / Belgium / Netherlands before i depart .

Nota bene . There have been no Gov. schemes here in the past , ....or will be in the Future that i can see, thus far.

 

[Johnnyboxer]

I'm afraid you're bang on.

A little while ago I spoke to a chap who spent 20 years in the RPA and recently came home to run the family farm. He's adamant the scheme being deliberately set up to fail. And once it's obvious that there is very low take up, the money can be syphoned off into other departments and they will simply cherry pick the bits of "public good" they want to keep, put it into law and make us do it anyway, just without the money. And once the money's all gone to more deserving causes, Red Tractor is being set up as a "privatised" industry regulator to police it all on their behalf, thus dispensing with the need for the puss filled mire that is the RPA and, even better, we get to pay for it...

...or those that are left get to pay for it! After all, neither government, processors nor retailors want to deal with lots of small, awkward farmers. It's inefficient don't you know? So, the small ones will leave (be pushed out) and the big ones will get ever bigger and Boris' chums will become more "efficient". So when the floppy haired berk visited Cornwall last week, he didn't visit a small family beef farm did he? Nope, he visited one of the biggest veg outfits in the country and told them to grow more veg!

Or am I just cynical?!!!

Better staying in the EU then, after all

 

[devonbeef]

Can someone tell me what Boris as actually offered working farmers please

sweet FA

 

[devonbeef]

I'm afraid you're bang on.

A little while ago I spoke to a chap who spent 20 years in the RPA and recently came home to run the family farm. He's adamant the scheme being deliberately set up to fail. And once it's obvious that there is very low take up, the money can be syphoned off into other departments and they will simply cherry pick the bits of "public good" they want to keep, put it into law and make us do it anyway, just without the money. And once the money's all gone to more deserving causes, Red Tractor is being set up as a "privatised" industry regulator to police it all on their behalf, thus dispensing with the need for the puss filled mire that is the RPA and, even better, we get to pay for it...

...or those that are left get to pay for it! After all, neither government, processors nor retailors want to deal with lots of small, awkward farmers. It's inefficient don't you know? So, the small ones will leave (be pushed out) and the big ones will get ever bigger and Boris' chums will become more "efficient". So when the floppy haired berk visited Cornwall last week, he didn't visit a small family beef farm did he? Nope, he visited one of the biggest veg outfits in the country and told them to grow more veg!

Or am I just cynical?!!!

spot on i,m afraid

 

[Kiwi Pete]

The analogy was just meant to highlight the absurdity of George Eustace's assertion that money from ELMS will enable farmers to continue in a similar fashion as they did with BPS.
I guess it could be extended to say that the productivity grants are like offering you 50% off the cost of some walking boots and waterproofs so you can indeed walk. This ignores the fact that if you spend your time walking, there will be little time for working and then you see that the grant is only available on North Face clothing which costs 3 times the amount as everything else in the first place.

"continue in a similar fashion" = being the cash-cow for the many people that derive an income from farming activities, without participating in farming activity?

Trickle-up economics.
Like trickle-down economics, except there is a trickle.

My observations on it from afar is that not only is ELMS designed to fail, it's designed to help you fail - in order to make the pyramid structure of agriculture taller, and stand on many less feet than before.

Anyone heard of "the Clearances"??