The world watches Boris's bold gamble
- Thread starter bobk
- Start date
It isn't going well anywhere is it .
I think we're beginning to understand what a pandemic is .
Charlie Gill
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- Location
- Kent
Good thread, and good timing, I've just been reading this. I'm just glad I'm a bystander.
In the US, for example, over 5% of the population is estimated to be immune-suppressed, and for them, vaccine protection from Covid-19 is often inadequate. Those for whom vaccination protection may be weaker is a very wide swathe – people with transplants, people trying to recover from cancer, people on some arthritis medications, and so much more. They’re frontline workers in hospitals and everywhere else, they have children, grandchildren, friends – and of course, there are immunocompromised children and adolescents, too. The circles of concern around those millions of people ripple out widely across the community. We should all care, and not let “but they had co-morbidities” become the new “but they were very old”.
That we only protect the most vulnerable among us if we vaccinate en masse is one of the basic tenets of vaccination, of course. And while you might get a different impression from some of the current debate, that doesn’t apply only to adults. Wider values for infectious diseases are part of why the under-18s get vaccinated, too, and we shouldn’t make an exception out of Covid-19 vaccination. In the case of the rubella vaccine in the routine childhood immunization program, it’s explicitly the point. That’s the “R” in the MMR vaccine. It’s not there to protect children from a very mild disease that was eliminated in many communities years ago. It’s to protect against the risks to fetal development should pregnant women become infected if the virus were to circulate again. Protection against getting sick if rubella does circulate is a bonus, but it’s not the reason infants were vaccinated. Another example: in the US, most adolescent boys might be getting vaccinated against HPV, though the main direct benefit is for women.
absolutelymaybe.plos.org
In the US, for example, over 5% of the population is estimated to be immune-suppressed, and for them, vaccine protection from Covid-19 is often inadequate. Those for whom vaccination protection may be weaker is a very wide swathe – people with transplants, people trying to recover from cancer, people on some arthritis medications, and so much more. They’re frontline workers in hospitals and everywhere else, they have children, grandchildren, friends – and of course, there are immunocompromised children and adolescents, too. The circles of concern around those millions of people ripple out widely across the community. We should all care, and not let “but they had co-morbidities” become the new “but they were very old”.
That we only protect the most vulnerable among us if we vaccinate en masse is one of the basic tenets of vaccination, of course. And while you might get a different impression from some of the current debate, that doesn’t apply only to adults. Wider values for infectious diseases are part of why the under-18s get vaccinated, too, and we shouldn’t make an exception out of Covid-19 vaccination. In the case of the rubella vaccine in the routine childhood immunization program, it’s explicitly the point. That’s the “R” in the MMR vaccine. It’s not there to protect children from a very mild disease that was eliminated in many communities years ago. It’s to protect against the risks to fetal development should pregnant women become infected if the virus were to circulate again. Protection against getting sick if rubella does circulate is a bonus, but it’s not the reason infants were vaccinated. Another example: in the US, most adolescent boys might be getting vaccinated against HPV, though the main direct benefit is for women.
A Worrying Drift Towards Exceptionalism In the Covid Vax For Kids Debate - Absolutely Maybe
I think we are drifting perilously close to exceptionalism in the debate about the Covid-19 vaccine for children and adolescents. The narrowed…
absolutelymaybe.plos.org
Charlie Gill
Member
- Location
- Kent
essex man
Member
- Location
- colchester
Good thread, and good timing, I've just been reading this. I'm just glad I'm a bystander.
In the US, for example, over 5% of the population is estimated to be immune-suppressed, and for them, vaccine protection from Covid-19 is often inadequate. Those for whom vaccination protection may be weaker is a very wide swathe – people with transplants, people trying to recover from cancer, people on some arthritis medications, and so much more. They’re frontline workers in hospitals and everywhere else, they have children, grandchildren, friends – and of course, there are immunocompromised children and adolescents, too. The circles of concern around those millions of people ripple out widely across the community. We should all care, and not let “but they had co-morbidities” become the new “but they were very old”.
That we only protect the most vulnerable among us if we vaccinate en masse is one of the basic tenets of vaccination, of course. And while you might get a different impression from some of the current debate, that doesn’t apply only to adults. Wider values for infectious diseases are part of why the under-18s get vaccinated, too, and we shouldn’t make an exception out of Covid-19 vaccination. In the case of the rubella vaccine in the routine childhood immunization program, it’s explicitly the point. That’s the “R” in the MMR vaccine. It’s not there to protect children from a very mild disease that was eliminated in many communities years ago. It’s to protect against the risks to fetal development should pregnant women become infected if the virus were to circulate again. Protection against getting sick if rubella does circulate is a bonus, but it’s not the reason infants were vaccinated. Another example: in the US, most adolescent boys might be getting vaccinated against HPV, though the main direct benefit is for women.
A Worrying Drift Towards Exceptionalism In the Covid Vax For Kids Debate - Absolutely Maybe
I think we are drifting perilously close to exceptionalism in the debate about the Covid-19 vaccine for children and adolescents. The narrowed…
But the vaccines are not stopping cases and infections charlie
- Location
- Limousin/Charentes toad land
Charlie Gill
Member
- Location
- Kent
Like I said, I'm a bystander. As a parent yourself, are you concurring with the blog post?
essex man
Member
- Location
- colchester
Which bit charlie?
essex man
Member
- Location
- colchester
The vaccine apparently doesn't stop cases or infections.
Those who are vulnerable may be less likely to die with covid as a co-morbidity.
They is no case for anyone not vulnerable to the virus to take the experimental vaccine which has serious side effects.
Those who are vulnerable may be less likely to die with covid as a co-morbidity.
They is no case for anyone not vulnerable to the virus to take the experimental vaccine which has serious side effects.
Last edited:
Hindsight
Member
- Location
- Lincolnshire
Well Napoleon gave the game away last week. He said that he would have laked to make vaccination compulsory for all French citizens. But at this stage stopped at medical staff. Vaccinatio passports are on their way come the autumn. The vaxxers will get there way eventually.
Freedom day tomorrow? Health sec infected, Bozo decides he doesn’t need to isolate as he’s now part of yet another new plan!
France have cases of a new variant mostly on a French island 9,000 miles away but Bozo shuts the door to the French immediately, compare that to welcoming the Indian version in with open arms not so long ago!.
This virus is not natural, it was designed for another purpose & as such it seems that it will keep on mutating, vaccines may not be a cure but for now it would seem to be our only defence against it, letting it spread far & wide is not a good idea.
The Chinese who know far more about it than anyone should would not be vaccinating as many of their people as they can without a very good reason!
France have cases of a new variant mostly on a French island 9,000 miles away but Bozo shuts the door to the French immediately, compare that to welcoming the Indian version in with open arms not so long ago!.
This virus is not natural, it was designed for another purpose & as such it seems that it will keep on mutating, vaccines may not be a cure but for now it would seem to be our only defence against it, letting it spread far & wide is not a good idea.
The Chinese who know far more about it than anyone should would not be vaccinating as many of their people as they can without a very good reason!
essex man
Member
- Location
- colchester
See it potentially going the other way now...with so many cases and infections amongst vaccinated, even those most in favour may open their eyes.
However, none of this has followed common sense since the start so imagining an end is quite difficult.
Fortunately concerns about the sustainability of the money printing bonanza are likely to limit further lockdowns as there are only popular if combined with handouts.
It's the greatest time in human history to be alive if your sole concern is survival.
But 1200 people will die today and in the winter that figure will likely at least double as usual.
- Location
- Limousin/Charentes toad land
. A bit of solid leadership wouldn’t go amiss just now
Hindsight
Member
- Location
- Lincolnshire
Hi Brian. Just PM me your address and I will fast courier a couple of rolls of Alcan foil to you. I have taken a bulk delivery a couple of weeks ago anticipating the end of civilisation come freedom day.
Hindsight
Member
- Location
- Lincolnshire
There were 4 unfortunate folk died in a road traffic accident Friday near Durham. And this weekend is lovely - so somewhere in Lincolnshire I reckon you will find a dead motorcyclist. Not banning these though. hey ho.
- Location
- Limousin/Charentes toad land
Plenty of farmers commit suicide each year.
Maybe a ban on farming? Or at least obligatory seratonin - men in white coats arriving at the door each morning forcing it down our throats
You really think the Chinese welded apartments doors shut because they fancied a bit of redecorating, you think they quarantined millions of people in cities with the army for environmental reasons, you think they have vaccinated well over a BILLION people simply because of a shortage of Asprin for a common cold!!
How their leadership must smile when they see Bozo's & naive fools grand plan of letting the virus rip the guts out of our country in the vain hope that it will suddenly pack up & go home.
Time to wake up & smell the coffee.
China with more than 1.4 billion people had 30 cases yesterday!!!
Charlie Gill
Member
- Location
- Kent
For anyone concerned about the "experimental" vaccine:
Remember also that trials are divided into multiple endpoints that finish over the course of a few years. The estimated study completion date of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine is Feb 2023. But safety endpoints are already completed, and I will try to explain.
Drugs that are administered for chronic conditions accumulate safety data as time goes on. Carcinogenicity/teratogenicity/genotoxicity studies accompany development to de-risk. Toxicologists can wreck your fave project but are like goalkeepers stopping you conceding.
This is paramount for molecules that can have diverse off-target activities with negative outcomes. MANY drugs with favourable drug-like properties will fail, as the the future of a company can depend on not screwing up - and more importantly, patients may suffer.
These points above are for drugs administered over many years, perhaps daily, twice daily, weekly, monthly and so on. This is *very* different for a vaccine. It’s a one-and-done kind of intervention/regimen, split over one or more doses (potentially with boosters to follow).
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Remember also that trials are divided into multiple endpoints that finish over the course of a few years. The estimated study completion date of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine is Feb 2023. But safety endpoints are already completed, and I will try to explain.
Drugs that are administered for chronic conditions accumulate safety data as time goes on. Carcinogenicity/teratogenicity/genotoxicity studies accompany development to de-risk. Toxicologists can wreck your fave project but are like goalkeepers stopping you conceding.
This is paramount for molecules that can have diverse off-target activities with negative outcomes. MANY drugs with favourable drug-like properties will fail, as the the future of a company can depend on not screwing up - and more importantly, patients may suffer.
These points above are for drugs administered over many years, perhaps daily, twice daily, weekly, monthly and so on. This is *very* different for a vaccine. It’s a one-and-done kind of intervention/regimen, split over one or more doses (potentially with boosters to follow).
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