Tory wipeout in scotland???

[Optimus]

Well I've played football all over scotland seen plenty of it.

 

[Highland Mule]

Well I've played football all over scotland seen plenty of it.

Football does seem to attract a different crowd from the societal norms. It's notable to consider the constituent parts of GHA rugby club and consider if that could happen with a round ball.

Where have you played in the Highlands and what sectarian issues did you experience?

 

[arcobob]

Who or what are you referring to by the highlighted part @arcobob ? Are you suggesting that your perceived sectarian problem extends to the entire of my home country? Sectarianism is a problem that exists in a very small but vocal minority of the working class football supporting community around Glasgow, and a few other isolated parts of society. It is not a widespread issue and is unknown in most of the country.

I was specifically referring to Glasshouse and his followers. My take on sectarianism in Scotland was much as you describe and not the way he portrays it
If stoking that sort of agenda will become the norm after independence it will turn Scotland onto a basket case economy
Who will invest in an unstable situation? Who will go there on holiday?

 

[Optimus]

Played against Halkirk. Just the usually verbal abuse,fighting did have the windows of the minibus panned inn on one away day.

 

[Highland Mule]

Played against Halkirk. Just the usually verbal abuse,fighting did have the windows of the minibus panned inn on one away day.

Halkirk, for sectarian behaviour? I couldn't even imagine which side they were on and which you were - it's a model village mostly inhabited by incomers from south of the border....

 

[glasshouse]

I was specifically referring to Glasshouse and his followers. My take on sectarianism in Scotland was much as you describe and not the way he portrays it
If stoking that sort of agenda will become the norm after independence it will turn Scotland onto a basket case economy
Who will invest in an unstable situation? Who will go there on holiday?

What pish you talk
Get back in the sand

 

[Optimus]

Halkirk, for sectarian behaviour? I couldn't even imagine which side they were on and which you were - it's a model village mostly inhabited by incomers from south of the border....

Ha no sorry ,they were fine.just thought you meant where had I played.

 

[glasshouse]

Well I've played football all over scotland seen plenty of it.

Football brings out the worst sadly.
But its only really an issue in the west round glasgow

 

[puntabrava]

The highland fishery’s days are numberd they are going to be the next big food scare .

The Salmon is almost the same colour as cod. I won’t touch the stuff.

 

[Hilly]

The Salmon is almost the same colour as cod. I won’t touch the stuff.

You do right.

 

[glasshouse]

The Salmon is almost the same colour as cod. I won’t touch the stuff.

???

 

[Agrivator]

According to the ''Pub Landlord'', an independent Scotland will be called ''Jockistan''.

And a condition of them going is that they have to take Liverpool with them.

 

[glasshouse]

According to the ''Pub Landlord'', an independent Scotland will be called ''Jockistan''.

And a condition of them going is that they have to take Liverpool with them.

We have a liverpool already, its called glasgow

 

[Old McDonald]

Absolutely. There's too many passive aggressive comments (and worse!) and remarks of condensation when someone doesn't agree with another's posts/opinion... it's why I usually stay out of this section.

But talking about these things is healthy and I do try to engage.


You're quite correct that's the SNP view and desire - to be independent of rUK (to use your reasoned use of the 'r'), but a member of the EU. That was working from a position inside the EU... I think once we are out, this may need to change. We are entering a very critical period... the future of the UK does hinge on this next 5 years and the deal Westminster/Boris/The Tory's get. If they sell Scotland down the river in any way, they will do the SNPs work for them - likewise if domestically they try to 'punish' our voting patterns.

I don't follow the SNP line. I did vote to remain in the EU. But I can see benefits to leaving - I just wasn't, and still amn't, convinced this current crop of politicians will do us good, so I was happy to stay. Also, now that we are leaving, IF Scotland were to become independent I feel the country would need to have a vote on rejoining the EU (again IF we even qualify to be a member)... I'm not sure a referendum would see us rejoin. In or out isn't an issue, or not to me at least, it is the deal we get that is important.

We won't keep going over the currency but I think Croatia's position is the € is like a coke can, it'll keep getting kicked down the road Infront of them.

Subsequent posts by others on the thread confirm our decision (jointly and severally is probably the correct English legal expression) to be more polite in order to continue a reasoned debate. I lurked on this forum for more than a few months before deciding to join from the terminally ill FWi purely because of the invective amongst posters.

I think that Boris is a lot smarter than a lot of people give him credit for and I am sure that he will not let down the Scottish people. He managed to get the message across, particularly in the NE of England where places that had voted Labour for decades put in a Conservative MP. Ian Lavery, the Labour Party Chairman, had (I think) the smallest majority ever of a Labour MP for that constituency, and would probably have lost it if the Brexit Party had not put up a candidate. I have a lot of knowledge and experience of that constituency, having been bred and reared there and spent my early working life heavily invovled in local governmen there. Not my fault that my mother was south of the Border when I was born, but at least she was north of the Wall and that, at least to many Northumbrians, is the important thing.

I must say that I like your use of "amn't", because in speech I say it myself. It is probably not accepted "proper" language but I think it is just as acceptable as can't. No such word as can't in my opinion. I am more or less apolitical, particularly since I no longer have a vote in the UK since I have been absent for more than 15 years continually. I really enjoy farming different things in different countries and that has meant living in "foreign" places for a lot of the last 40 years.

Quite happy to drop the currency issue too. Too many ifs and buts to know what might occur.

 

[Bongodog]

The Scots argument appears to be "its not our parliament" " it doesn't represent us" etc.
The big reason that Scotland no longer has a voice in Westminster is that it votes SNP.

Just look at the long distinguished list of politicians that Scotland has sent to Westminster, Gordon Brown, Alec Douglas-Home, Ramsay McDonald, lest you should forget Tony Blair was a Scotsman. So many cabinet ministers it would take an hour to list the last 40 years worth. Yet Scotland is less than 10% of the UK.

A consistent vote for the hated Tories in the past decade would have produced yet more Scots cabinet ministers by now.
Then we have the Barnett formula that guarantees Scotland 20% more for public expenditure.

All the Navy's warships now built in Scotland

Allowed to vote at Westminster on matters such as the NHS when English politicians have no vote on the same matter in Scotland.

Of course we were told that an independent Scotland would earn a fortune from oil, perhaps they might have at $150 a barrel, the price didn't stick there for long though.

Apart from the hassle of a divorce I'm struggling to see why England isn't clamouring to set Scotland adrift

 

[Nithsdale]

Subsequent posts by others on the thread confirm our decision (jointly and severally is probably the correct English legal expression) to be more polite in order to continue a reasoned debate. I lurked on this forum for more than a few months before deciding to join from the terminally ill FWi purely because of the invective amongst posters.

I think that Boris is a lot smarter than a lot of people give him credit for and I am sure that he will not let down the Scottish people. He managed to get the message across, particularly in the NE of England where places that had voted Labour for decades put in a Conservative MP. Ian Lavery, the Labour Party Chairman, had (I think) the smallest majority ever of a Labour MP for that constituency, and would probably have lost it if the Brexit Party had not put up a candidate. I have a lot of knowledge and experience of that constituency, having been bred and reared there and spent my early working life heavily invovled in local governmen there. Not my fault that my mother was south of the Border when I was born, but at least she was north of the Wall and that, at least to many Northumbrians, is the important thing.

I must say that I like your use of "amn't", because in speech I say it myself. It is probably not accepted "proper" language but I think it is just as acceptable as can't. No such word as can't in my opinion. I am more or less apolitical, particularly since I no longer have a vote in the UK since I have been absent for more than 15 years continually. I really enjoy farming different things in different countries and that has meant living in "foreign" places for a lot of the last 40 years.

Quite happy to drop the currency issue too. Too many ifs and buts to know what might occur.

Boris has said an awful lot of bad things about the Scots/Scotland... a penny spent in Swindon is better spent than a pound anywhere in Scotland.

He refers to us publicly as Jocks.

He wrote a poem which was published in the early 2000's in one of the newspapers he wrote for calling us Verminous and calling for Hadrian's wall to be rebuilt to pen us in...
I wouldn't be in a rush to forget any of that. The English would not stand for it, if a Scotsman made these remarks about them, then sought to rule...
Clever he may be more so than he lets on, but he lets his true colours be seen. I don't trust him to unite this Union, far from it.

These Labour areas have had no choice, the country was never going to vote Corbyn. These areas also voted to leave the EU... the seats won in this general election are not of a country swinging to the right, but a country sick of delay and dithering by a minority govt which couldn't agree. It's a desperate move to try and get somewhere with Brexit. If I deal is done in this term, and Labour find a more suiting leader, normal service will resume.


I won't give away all my cards... I openly admit to wanting Independence, so I currently vote SNP. But there's a lot they do I don't like - if we became independent tomorrow and had a general election on Tuesday I, and many I know, would not vote SNP - we would go back to our 'normal' political leaning...

 

[Agrivator]

The election result in Scotland suggests that only about 35 -40% of the voters in Scotland want independence.

45% of the votes cast were for the SNP (55% were for Unionist Parties)

Of the above 45% who voted SNP, about 5% to 10% units were Labour supporters who voted tactically for The SNP to keep the Tories out.

So if 40% was the maximum vote for independence, a turnout of 70% shows that only 28% of the total electorate voted for independence. And it is likely that the turnout of independence supporters would be very high (90% at least?).

So Nicola's claim that she has a mandate for Indyref2 is ballcocks. Particularly when the whole of the South of Scotland is a beautiful shade of blue.

You can argue against my logic, but it won't do you any good.

 

[Nithsdale]

The election result in Scotland suggests that only about 35 -40% of the voters in Scotland want independence.

45% of the votes cast were for the SNP (55% were for Unionist Parties)

Of the above 45% who voted SNP, about 5% to 10% units were Labour supporters who voted tactically for The SNP to keep the Tories out.

So if 40% was the maximum vote for independence, a turnout of 70% shows that only 28% of the total electorate voted for independence. And it is likely that the turnout of independence supporters would be very high (90% at least?).

So Nicola's claim that she has a mandate for Indyref2 is ballcocks. Particularly when the whole of the South of Scotland is a beautiful shade of blue.

You can argue against my logic, but it won't do you any good.

But that doesn't Count for that group called "Tory's for Independence" or Labour voters who voted Labour but will vote Yes, or Green voters who support independence...

44.7% of available votes and 80% of available seats went to SNP. That's the mandate - that is how these elections work.

You're trying to manipulate the numbers



The Tory's only got 43.6% of the vote and only 56.1% of the available seats yet it's a clear win for their mandate?

 

[Highland Mule]

The Scots argument appears to be "its not our parliament" " it doesn't represent us" etc.
The big reason that Scotland no longer has a voice in Westminster is that it votes SNP.

The underlined - plenty in Scotland think that about Holyrood. You can’t write “the Scots” and assume we are one homogenous mix, nor suggest we have similar political positions. Plenty have a firm belief in the union and wish to remain part of it. Some of those would have voted for the SNP in this most recent GE as a way of trying to keep Boris out, some would have voted for Boris as a way of keeping Nicola out - you just don’t know, and any attempt to generalise is bunkum, piffle and frankly nonsensical.

 

[brigadoon]

A dangerous suggestion to Leavers. You wouldn't want the whole of the EU voting, if the UK could leave!

hmmm - is that not the situation now

Seem to recall reading that EU had changed the rules so that any future leaver needed permission?

Uk leaving arbitrarily under previous rules