Tramlines?? yes or no

[Bobthebuilder]

Last drill we bought saved £2800 not having markers

The one we have just bought marker arms are not even an option !

Costs a lot more than £2800 for a good GPS set up tho, also what do you do if you lose GPS for some reason when it’s drilling time, could still go old style if you have markers

 

[fred.950]

12m avatar - markers are not an option

I look forward to hearing how you get on with it! Did the wider row spacing not put you off?

 

[Clive]

Costs a lot more than £2800 for a good GPS set up tho, also what do you do if you lose GPS for some reason when it’s drilling time, could still go old style if you have markers

GPS does a lot more for you than just guide the drill - it’s sprays and fert and driver attention where the real payback is

I saw some data in the USA recently that showed a driver spent over 86% of his time and attention steering - give him gps and that time is spent on making sure the machine he's using is performing at its optimum

That means less Cock-ups and down time and a better work rate and better set up machinery


We don’t “loose” GPS - not ever in the last 10 years anyway, it’s rock solid when set up right. More reliable than the people using it !

 

[Clive]

I look forward to hearing how you get on with it! Did the wider row spacing not put you off?

Not really worried about the row spacing, our co conversion (which we will run alongside this) is same spacing and our highest ever yields here are in wide rows. no trial data I’ve ever seen shows penalty to wide rows until you get to extremes

I think if you have a grass weed issue it might be a problem but we don’t have that issue

 

[Chae1]

12m avatar - markers are not an option

Will your 724 be fit for it!?

 

[Clive]

Will your 724 be fit for it!?

I hope so - a 12m avatar has the same amount of coulters that 8m 750a would if such a machine existed - we pull the 6m 750a very easy with a 724

Horsch say it will be enough and there are others already doing so

 

[Farmer Roy]

12m avatar - markers are not an option

I was interested in the Avatar - Horsch are a relatively new player in our market.

be keen to see how you get on with it / your opinion of it down the track.
Why did you go with it & not just a 12m JD single disc machine, considering your experience with the 750 ?

have you ever run those open spoked gauge wheels & steel scraper rings like I have mentioned before ? They are a game changer in sticky conditions

edit - ive probably just answered my own question, but I guess it is partly due to transport width ? The Avatar folds up quite narrow ( which is partly what appealed to me also ) whereas the JD 1890 12m machine has a transport width of something like 5.5 m ?

 

[Farmer Roy]

I hope so - a 12m avatar has the same amount of coulters that 8m 750a would if such a machine existed - we pull the 6m 750a very easy with a 724

Horsch say it will be enough and there are others already doing so

that's it - the width is irrelevant, its about how many row units ( and their individual draught requirements ) that you are pulling through the ground

taking it to the extreme, my 12m summer crop planter on 1m rows - I could probably pull with my Landcruiser ute. Needs something a bit bigger to pick it up though

 

[Farmer Roy]

GPS does a lot more for you than just guide the drill - it’s sprays and fert and driver attention where the real payback is

I saw some data in the USA recently that showed a driver spent over 86% of his time and attention steering - give him gps and that time is spent on making sure the machine he's using is performing at its optimum

That means less Cock-ups and down time and a better work rate and better set up machinery


We don’t “loose” GPS - not ever in the last 10 years anyway, it’s rock solid when set up right. More reliable than the people using it !

ive been running an RTK base station & autosteer for something like 15 years or more.
Nearly all of it planting, ( I use contractors for spraying & harvesting ) in zero till, standing stubble, high residue situations, where it is very difficult to see a marker arm mark & virtually impossible to see at night amongst all the shadows & stubble.

best thing ive ever done. The difference in productivity & operator fatigue needs to be experienced to believe. As @Clive said, when swinging off a steering wheel, about 80% of the operators attention is taken up 100% of the time with just steering straight . . .
with auto steer, it frees the driver up to concentrate on the job at hand, be more aware of the machine & conditions & stay a lot fresher & alert. Id never go back . . . It gives you so many options as well, its not just about being lazy & not wanting to steer
Almost standard equipment here now, be hard pressed to find any arable operation that doesn't run some form or level of auto steer. It is MUCH cheaper than it was 20 or more years ago

 

[Farmer Roy]

err, we ( & just about everyone else does ) run auto steer on everything, but also use tramlines - not for guidance but to limit all compaction to a very limited & consistent area in our fields

its all zero till here . . .
most are based on either 8m, 9m, 12m or 18m planting widths, with everything else fitting in or being multiples of the base width

ie - you might run a 12m planter, a 12m header ( sorry - combine ) in the same tracks & a 36m sprayrig down every third set of planting tracks
some people leave bare tramlines, others plant into them for "fuzzy" tramlines, but the main aim is limit all wheel traffic to specific areas in the field & using auto steer to make sure you stay on it . . .

 

[Farmer Roy]

Not really worried about the row spacing, our co conversion (which we will run alongside this) is same spacing and our highest ever yields here are in wide rows. no trial data I’ve ever seen shows penalty to wide rows until you get to extremes

I think if you have a grass weed issue it might be a problem but we don’t have that issue

our "standard" row spacings for cool season crops were always 7" - 9"
however, with the widespread adoption of zero till & stubble retention, wider rows are now more common, partly for increased clearance / trashflow between row units & also to reduce cost if you are talking anything from $2000 - $5000 per row unit ( 12 m machine on 375mm spacings has 16 less rows than at 250mm. That could make a difference of say $30,000 - $60,000 on the purchase price . . . )

in this part of the world, 333mm row spacings ( to fit in with our 1m summer crop rows ) are very common. 375 mm ( or 15" for the dinosaurs ) is also very common.
I have seen some very good crops grown consistently in a dryland situations on these row spacings. I don't think you are giving much away yield wise. There is NO point in always chasing the highest yield & getting it say 1 year in 5. Long term consistency year in year out over the long term is what we need to be aiming for

the only negative with wide rows is reduced competition with weeds, but if you retain all stubbles & crop residues you should have a good mat of mulch between the rows anyway

another advantage of wider rows is improved air circulation amongst the crop canopy & a drier micro climate, which reduces fungal issues
I refuse to use fungicides ( don't get me started on their impact ) so prefer "cultural" solutions to chemical ones

 

[ajd132]

When we ordered our 12m sprinter marker arms were a 5k option, obviously didn’t have them. Just ordered a 12m avatar (to share with another similar sized farm, I’m not completely mad!) and as clive says I don’t think markers are an option at all and the thought didn’t even cross my mind of having them.

 

[Clive]

I was interested in the Avatar - Horsch are a relatively new player in our market.

be keen to see how you get on with it / your opinion of it down the track.
Why did you go with it & not just a 12m JD single disc machine, considering your experience with the 750 ?

have you ever run those open spoked gauge wheels & steel scraper rings like I have mentioned before ? They are a game changer in sticky conditions

edit - ive probably just answered my own question, but I guess it is partly due to transport width ? The Avatar folds up quite narrow ( which is partly what appealed to me also ) whereas the JD 1890 12m machine has a transport width of something like 5.5 m ?

Yes - transport width is the issue with the 750a - 6m the widest that’s uk road legal

Low power requirement is what attracted me to the avatar as I don’t want to go any bigger than 8t type tractors also the fact the Coulter is VERY similar to the 750a and I know that works on our farm

Nicely built machine - looks tidy and has all the extras we had to add to our 759a as standard

Also a big of a bargain price wise / m vs competition in the uk right now

 

[warksfarmer]

Polybel Organic run a 12m Amazone disc drill similar to the horsch on 240hp. They can put beans in so it should be ok although those banks around your yard are steep. 6m rapid used all of 300hp to get up them although far more soil engaging tools of course but small hopper so less weight. It’ll be interesting to see. Might be better drilling across them seeing you’ve got RTK.

 

[Clive]

Polybel Organic run a 12m Amazone disc drill similar to the horsch on 240hp. They can put beans in so it should be ok although those banks around your yard are steep. 6m rapid used all of 300hp to get up them although far more soil engaging tools of course but small hopper so less weight. It’ll be interesting to see. Might be better drilling across them seeing you’ve got RTK.

I visited a uk farmer who was pulling a 12m avatar with a 724 and he said it was fine

It’s much easier to pull stuff on unmoved soil as well

We will still be using the 6m co conversion as well so if there are banks we struggle on that will be the choice

I think we will drill full controlled traffic now - with 12 / 36 it seems mad not to

 

[Chae1]

Polybel Organic run a 12m Amazone disc drill similar to the horsch on 240hp. They can put beans in so it should be ok although those banks around your yard are steep. 6m rapid used all of 300hp to get up them although far more soil engaging tools of course but small hopper so less weight. It’ll be interesting to see. Might be better drilling across them seeing you’ve got RTK.

I always think they shift a serious amount of soil for the type of land they farm and type of farming they are doing.

 

[warksfarmer]

I always think they shift a serious amount of soil for the type of land they farm and type of farming they are doing.

I like them and follow them and also Jonny on media. As somebody who’s looked into and want to be organic they are a great example. Having also visited smaller organic setups I think you have no choice in moving soil. If you don’t and don’t have animals in the system it’ll fail miserably. Also there’s no guaranteed premium market either. It’s very volatile so steer clear from the norm and offer something different like Polybel .... organic veg!

 

[Clive]

I always think they shift a serious amount of soil for the type of land they farm and type of farming they are doing.

Organic is pretty hard without moving soil - there are notable exceptions however like John Pawsey

 

[ajd132]

Organic is pretty hard without moving soil - there are notable exceptions however like John Pawsey

I farm next to John and he definitely moves a lot of soil!

 

[Clive]

I farm next to John and he definitely moves a lot of soil!

Thought he was close to organic no till ? Drill and hoe ?