Trimble Rangepoint or Centerpoint?
- Thread starter Vario415
- Start date
- Location
- Essex/Herts Border
We use Rangepoint for drilling cereals, osr and pulses and find it plenty good enough for that.
- Location
- Huntingdon, UK
Rangepoint is fine for cereals etc, but is nearly £300/yr now. Long term it may be better to buy the £1500 Centrepoint unlock if that gives you a lower yearly cost.
Northern farmer
Member
- Location
- North
It is impossible to get one answer to your question. You can find farmers from the forum saying EGNOS is enough for drilling. Equally RTK is claimed to be the only acceptable solution for drilling. You have to make your own conclusions.
EGNOS works reasonably well for straight A-B lines if you reset offset pretty much for every swath. Some say it is not needed that often, it depends on the remaining offset one accepts.
The intensity of manual interaction, offset correction and watching after errors decreases when going from EGNOS towards higher accuracy correction signals. See what Trimble says about their services: 30 cm RMS, 50 cm at 95% confidence or 15 cm pass-to-pass (I believe within 15 minutes). Compare that with RTK at 0.8 mm plus 1 ppm from base distance.
Anything from EGNOS to RTK can be considered sufficient or anything below RTK can be considered insufficient, a matter of opinion and needs. Cost is another important personal decision factor.
PS. don't try to say that rangepoint is more accurate than Trimble says. Does not make it more or any less acceptable if one accepts their own figures. For many farmers it obviously is acceptable when they accept the reported accuracy.
EGNOS works reasonably well for straight A-B lines if you reset offset pretty much for every swath. Some say it is not needed that often, it depends on the remaining offset one accepts.
The intensity of manual interaction, offset correction and watching after errors decreases when going from EGNOS towards higher accuracy correction signals. See what Trimble says about their services: 30 cm RMS, 50 cm at 95% confidence or 15 cm pass-to-pass (I believe within 15 minutes). Compare that with RTK at 0.8 mm plus 1 ppm from base distance.
Anything from EGNOS to RTK can be considered sufficient or anything below RTK can be considered insufficient, a matter of opinion and needs. Cost is another important personal decision factor.
PS. don't try to say that rangepoint is more accurate than Trimble says. Does not make it more or any less acceptable if one accepts their own figures. For many farmers it obviously is acceptable when they accept the reported accuracy.
- Location
- Northumberlandia
Used RTX rangepoint for over a year now & its pretty good. Odd issues but v usefull tech.
Might switch it to Centerpoint yet, demo first n see?
Might switch it to Centerpoint yet, demo first n see?
Northern farmer
Member
- Location
- North
Since there are no proper comments I thought I'd ask: is that CenterPoint RTX or CenterPoint VRS or RangePoint RTX?
Are your receivers comparable? At least dual constellation and dual frequency capable each? Although I know nothing about JD RTK systems I'm sure it does not wander when it has RTK fix. What do you mean by "unreliability of the signal at fault"? Are you referring to the RTK correction signal or GNSS satellite signals (limited number of birds visible)? Your screen should indicate both the RTK fix status and the correction signal availability. I assume you have issues with the RTK correction signal if the receivers are comparable and one has issues at the location the other one does not (meaning both see the same number of satellites).
How is the RTK correction signal delivered to your JD? Via radio or using NTRIP?
Are your receivers comparable? At least dual constellation and dual frequency capable each? Although I know nothing about JD RTK systems I'm sure it does not wander when it has RTK fix. What do you mean by "unreliability of the signal at fault"? Are you referring to the RTK correction signal or GNSS satellite signals (limited number of birds visible)? Your screen should indicate both the RTK fix status and the correction signal availability. I assume you have issues with the RTK correction signal if the receivers are comparable and one has issues at the location the other one does not (meaning both see the same number of satellites).
How is the RTK correction signal delivered to your JD? Via radio or using NTRIP?
Our prerequisite was we wanted RTK accuracy for drilling and spraying so we looked around at the time and subsequently purchased the JD system. It wasn't the cheapest but to us looked the best solution mainly because of the user interface. We preserved with it for 3 years putting up with the tractor wandering and loosing signal. The dealer was good and out many many times but it never got any better. So we moved it to another tractor and now its used sporadically for things like rolling as its to unreliable. We then purchased the Centrepoint RTK for drilling and spraying and now after 12 months its brilliant. So from our point of view we just wanted RTK accuracy which we now have got. If the dealer can't sort out an issue then we aren't going to be able to.
Northern farmer
Member
- Location
- North
I wonder where the Trimble and JD experts wander, we would really need some here.
My understanding was that there is no CenterPoint RTK but I must be wrong since you mentioned it one more time.
Do you mean you keep paying for the JD RTK correction signal even if you use that system only sporadically for tasks that could be handled with the free signal?
I cannot see why the JD system could not be made work equally accurately as the Trimble if both were running RTK and then could work from the same correction signal source. Something essential is missing from this scenario.
My understanding was that there is no CenterPoint RTK but I must be wrong since you mentioned it one more time.
Do you mean you keep paying for the JD RTK correction signal even if you use that system only sporadically for tasks that could be handled with the free signal?
I cannot see why the JD system could not be made work equally accurately as the Trimble if both were running RTK and then could work from the same correction signal source. Something essential is missing from this scenario.
pdagriservices
Member
Still on SF1 with JD a couple of years of tweaking and find it spot on ! Use a 6000 dome so SF2 really! Can t see the point in paying £1800 quid for SF3 and whatever the sub is a year! But not bothered about permanent tranlines etc! If that's what you want RTK is the only way to go! Sorry not Trimble related!
Pheasant Surprise
Member
- Location
- Woodbridge, Suffolk
Spend the money unlocking it to “cm” (Centerpoint)
Save the money by running your own RTK base instead of on ongoing Centerpoint subs. Better value if course if you have several machines leveraging it or sell the correction to your neighbours.
No its now on sf1 the free signal. Nothing missing they are both completely separate systems with their own signals. There is no cross over between them. Centrepoint works at rtk accuracy the JD does not. Simple as that.
Northern farmer
Member
- Location
- North
Pheasant Surprise
Member
- Location
- Woodbridge, Suffolk
Think his original comment was in regards to the reliability of the correction signal - which is always the weakest link.
It’s hard to fathom that a G7 economy like the UK could have such utter third world quality mobile infrastructure in many rural areas, but we do unfortunately, and UHF is only as good as your nearest hill or big military base / airport which moans to OFCOM and tells you to turn your power down.
Northern farmer
Member
- Location
- North
The "unreliability of the signal" was something I was not able to interpret. I asked for some clarification but there was none. You must be right, the issue must have been the reliability of the correction signal.
But how does the CenterPoint RTK work then? Assuming it isn't CenterPoint RTX, then it cannot be a satellite based correction signal. Why not use the same RTK correction source for JD if it works fine for Trimble?
If after all this Trimble device works on CenterPoint RTX, then I understand that the Trimble satellite based correction signal may be more reliable than RTK on radio on via NTRIP (it could be the opposite too, depending on conditions, hills to the south etc. but for D14 RTK may be unreliable.
If it was CenterPoint RTX, then D14 did not get RTK as prerequisite was. Something close to RTK but not as accurate or repeatable.
But how does the CenterPoint RTK work then? Assuming it isn't CenterPoint RTX, then it cannot be a satellite based correction signal. Why not use the same RTK correction source for JD if it works fine for Trimble?
If after all this Trimble device works on CenterPoint RTX, then I understand that the Trimble satellite based correction signal may be more reliable than RTK on radio on via NTRIP (it could be the opposite too, depending on conditions, hills to the south etc. but for D14 RTK may be unreliable.
If it was CenterPoint RTX, then D14 did not get RTK as prerequisite was. Something close to RTK but not as accurate or repeatable.
Pheasant Surprise
Member
- Location
- Woodbridge, Suffolk
Centerpoint RTX correction is delivered by satellite (although you can get it over IP in some markets, but let’s not confuse matters). Once a compatible Trimble receiver is unlocked to cm level then you’ve got all the options as to how you feed it a correction, be that via satellite (an RTX sub needed) or NTRiP or radio.
The info surrounding the unreliability of the JD RTK service can only be answered by @D14 because only he could tell us how he’s getting the JD correction - it’s either radio/mast/UHF or cellular network/NTRIP.
If his Centerpoint delivered correction is good/reliable on his Trimble receivers, it makes no odds for his JD gear as that is not compatible with the Trimble RTX correction services.
Northern farmer
Member
- Location
- North
But D14 says he is using CenterPoint RTK, not CenterPoint RTX. I specifically asked if this is correct, no response, I then assume it is (since I'm sure he knows Trimble gear much better than me, almost everyone does). So much confusion here, I'm not really surprised that the JD dealer gave up.
Pheasant Surprise
Member
- Location
- Woodbridge, Suffolk
Strictly speaking the title of the service is “Centerpoint RTX”.
A compatible Trimble receiver can be unlocked to RTK (centimetre) accuracy receiver. A further subscription to Centrepoint RTX still means it’s an RTK capable receiver although the accuracy from that subscription is (slightly) not as good as traditional RTK from a nearby local base delivered via UHF radio or NTRIP. Including VRS ‘virtual base’ offerings in the latter.
Most casual observers (and dealers!) see Centerpoint RTX as being pretty much equivalent to and (on compatible Trimble receivers) interchangeable with traditional RTK from an accuracy / repeatability perspective and it’s certainly marketed and sold as such. In fact it’s marketed as superior in some ways to “traditional RTK” as it doesn’t require a physical base (although in actual fact it’s really a calculated global VRS solution that uses lots and lots of bases)
Perhaps that explains or is the root of some confusion here?
Northern farmer
Member
- Location
- North
If you say so, then it is so. I thought there was no CenterPoint RTK and asked for a clarification but did not get any response. I then had to assume I'm wrong until proven to be right.
There is CentrePoint VRS as far as I know and the prerequisite was RTK. This is why I thought both might work on RTK although another spelling error.
I understand people make spelling errors, myself I'm very good at that. Not always easy to figure out if it is a spelling error or not, then a clarification when asked would be nice.
If you say so, then it is so. I thought there was no CenterPoint RTK and asked for a clarification but did not get any response. I then had to assume I'm wrong until proven to be right.
There is CentrePoint VRS as far as I know and the prerequisite was RTK. This is why I thought both might work on RTK although another spelling error.
I understand people make spelling errors, myself I'm very good at that. Not always easy to figure out if it is a spelling error or not, then a clarification when asked would be nice.
CenterPoint is Trimble's trademarked brand name for all its high accuracy correction services.
CenterPoint RTX (standard)
CenterPoint RTX (fast)
CenterPoint VRS
CenterPoint RTK