What are we scared of?

manhill

Member
Seems the Russians are the only ones tbat can treaten to escalate,why can't we?
They have no right to be in the air above Ukraine, we do if invited by the Ukrainian government.
Tell the barstewards that next time they hit a childrens hospital the response will be 'severe'
Putin's been let get away with too much already. Not advocating a war to invade Russia just to drive them out of Ukraine.
Don't put up with the murderous scum any longer.
(So what if those Migs are flown from Germany?)
 
Seems the Russians are the only ones tbat can treaten to escalate,why can't we?
They have no right to be in the air above Ukraine, we do if invited by the Ukrainian government.
Tell the barstewards that next time they hit a childrens hospital the response will be 'severe'
Putin's been let get away with too much already. Not advocating a war to invade Russia just to drive them out of Ukraine.
Don't put up with the murderous scum any longer.
(So what if those Migs are flown from Germany?)
It makes little sense seeing as anti armour, anti aircraft weapons, machine guns, sniper rifles, ammunition etc. are all being openly provided.
 
I don't think the West needs to take direct action as yet. Keep sending the supplies. Keep flying in volunteers willing to fight. It is the Cold war all over again, Russia vs the rest. Ukraine will be Putin's graveyard, you wait and see. With the West all now making big moves to change their national policies, he will experience financial pain for years to come.
 

beardface

Member
Location
East Yorkshire
We are scared, because we don't think we are dealing with a rational foe.

I feel desperately sorry for the Ukrainian nation, but I am not prepared to risk nuclear weapons being used against us.

He is rational though. He and his advisors have believed there own propaganda about the West and Ukraine. They've created a rational decision (for them) to invade. Nuclear threat is sabre rattling. He knows that once he launches even a single missile russia ceases to exist. I'm not advocating escalating this beyond a conflict between 2 countries, as I don't think many people are really prepared for WW3 including myself. However if the sanctions don't work and the Ukranians won't surrender or cut an uncomfortable deal, then there's very few options left apart from direct NATO action.
 

The Agrarian

Member
Location
Co Antrim
The sanctions won't work in time for Ukraine. It will be reduced to rubble.

Sanctions do not have a good record of stimulating regime change. Iran, North Korea, Syria. All still in place.

Sanctions may even make Putin into a hero in the eyes of his people, who will be told that the west is impoverishing them because it is nasty to Russia.

It seems we could fight Russia in Syria. It seems we can fight other inferior nation's forces on their own ground. But Russia is a bit too tough to go head to head with at its own border. Let's be honest, we could have ended this before it even got started providing air support when they crossed the border.
 

Danllan

Member
Location
Sir Gar / Carms
...It seems we could fight Russia in Syria. It seems we can fight other inferior nation's forces on their own ground. But Russia is a bit too tough to go head to head with at its own border. Let's be honest, we could have ended this before it even got started providing air support when they crossed the border.
Rubbish, the one and only reason we are not now directly confronting Russia is the nuclear threat it poses, nothing else; even more so now its army's performance has revealed what a shower of sh!t it is.

I repeat from other of my posts: it seems very likely that for many years Russia has successfully duped us as to the ability and effectiveness of its forces and their equipment.*



*Which will have been a shock to many Russian commanders, and is acutely embarrassing to them all.
 

ewald

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Mid-Lincs
So Putin wins?
Yes. For now.

The stakes are too high - I have just been watching the footage of the bombed hospital. It is awful, but one nuclear explosion in any European city will kill thousands of times as many as the total casualties in Ukraine.

He will be toppled from within his own country - the internet and mobile phones have changed everything since the Cold War of the sixties. It is no longer possible to keep a population in ignorance.
 

Bury the Trash

Member
Mixed Farmer
Rubbish, the one and only reason we are not now directly confronting Russia is the nuclear threat it poses, nothing else; even more so now its army's performance has revealed what a shower of sh!t it is.

I repeat from other of my posts: it seems very likely that for many years Russia has successfully duped us as to the ability and effectiveness of its forces and their equipment.*



*Which will have been a shock to many Russian commanders, and is acutely embarrassing to them all.
especially the dead ones.:sneaky:
 

With what I've been reading I think he does believe his own propaganda, as opposed to being in some way insane.

From what I gather the FSB or GRU were presented with hypothetical scenarios for military action, but seeing as no one actually said this sh!t is going down, they didn't prepare properly nor for any contingencies, like Ukraine fighting back instead of saying scratch my belly.

This action has worked for him before, many times before, Ze Vest has blinked each and every time. Not only blinked but brought their own vaseline, Nordstream and how ever many other deals.

Then add in no one has told him, btw boss we've been financially raping your military for like f'kn ages now, and honestly no one even knows the real degree to which it's being done, those yachts aren't cheap, as you know.

Loads more then about their economy and industrial ability. God knows what on their diplomatic view of relationships between themselves and other individual actors, I'm looking at you China.

So if he's in this bubble where he's surrounded himself with liars and cheats, all on the take from the state, and no one really thinks they're going to war because why would you, and likely no one is willing to give him proper bad news......... Then he wakes up one fine morning and says to himself, 2 days and it'll be done let's go to war.

Who dares tell him stop.
 

JimAndy

Member
Mixed Farmer
Yes. For now.

The stakes are too high - I have just been watching the footage of the bombed hospital. It is awful, but one nuclear explosion in any European city will kill thousands of times as many as the total casualties in Ukraine.

Ukraine is a European country, and we made it clear that Putin can do what he want and we will not take Direct action against him, what make you think if he started using tactical nukes, we would take action ?
he also know if he nuked a NATO city we would turn Russia into a wasteland.
He will be toppled from within his own country - the internet and mobile phones have changed everything since the Cold War of the sixties. It is no longer possible to keep a population in ignorance.
I'm not so sure, been looking at some news coverage from non west based sources, and Russia seems to have a young and growing nationalist movement, who look at the old USSR and how they were a once super power, and think they can get that back
 

JimAndy

Member
Mixed Farmer
One thing i would be scared about is what if Russia has developed a anti ICBM weapon making our nukes ineffective.
last year they tested a anti sat weapon in space. if this was also effective against ICBM, it would give him a major advantage hence why he attacking ukraine as he knows, we not get involved in it ?
 

Danllan

Member
Location
Sir Gar / Carms
With what I've been reading I think he does believe his own propaganda, as opposed to being in some way insane...
My query was about referring to anyone who believes their own 'propaganda' as rational...

I do not think Putin is insane, and I certainly don't think he believes Russian propaganda. He knows it's all lies and probably orders most of it. He's just spouting any line he thinks can spin out a story for a bit longer to buy time, or in some way may fool idiots into thinking he is the innocent party.

He is someone who enormously resents the end and breaking up of the Soviet Union, not for its own sake, but as a vehicle for Russian power. He is far from stupid, he knows that Ukraine is a working democracy, he knows there is no Nazi government there; he's just used to telling people what to think and them either believing it or pretending to.

But that isn't working this time, his military are either performing nowhere near as well as he expected, or failing entirely; his economy is wrecked; his public are seeing how much power he doesn't have, and are experiencing ever-more repression as a result; he is very, very frightened. And that makes him dangerous; it also makes his position in 'power' very dangerous for him.

His next lies will be about Ukraine posing one or more of the NBC threats to Russia, as a pseudo reason for preemptive strike of the same sort against Ukraine. Utterly evil, but probably not insane.
 

Danllan

Member
Location
Sir Gar / Carms
One thing i would be scared about is what if Russia has developed a anti ICBM weapon making our nukes ineffective.
last year they tested a anti sat weapon in space. if this was also effective against ICBM, it would give him a major advantage hence why he attacking ukraine as he knows, we not get involved in it ?
Which independent experts were there to verify this? I think we've been falling for Russian propaganda about how good its forces and weapons are.
 

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Man fined £300 for bonfire-related waste offences

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Written by William Kellett from Agriland

court-640x360.jpg
A man has pleaded guilty at Newtownards Magistrates’ Court to waste offences relating to a bonfire next to the electrical sub-station on the Circular Road in Newtownards, Co. Down.

Gareth Gill (51) of Abbot’s Walk, Newtownards pleaded guilty to two charges under the Waste and Contaminated Land (Northern Ireland) Order 1997, for which he was fined £150 each and ordered to pay a £15 offender’s levy

On June 25, 2018, PSNI officers went to Gill’s yard, where they found a large amount of waste consisting of scrap wood, pallets, carpet and underlay.

Discussion with Northern Ireland Environment Agency (NIEA) officers confirmed the site...
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