Whats the stabiliser cow of the sheep world?

[neilo]

The other attribute of the Mule is that unlike any other breed or cross in the Universe, it talks or chunters away to its lambs in the local dialect.

And how would Henry Brewis have been able to portray the various expressions on a ewe's face if he hadn't kept Mules?

Ten Little Pet Lambs by Henry Brewis:

Ten little pet lambs playing in a line
one of them got watery mouth, then there were nine.

Nine little pet lambs, worrying about there mate
one got salmonella and then there were eight.

Eight little pet lambs heard the engine revvin, but they never saw the tractor, then there were seven.

Seven little pet lambs playin games and tricks, one hanged in wire netting, then there were six.

Six little pet lambs glad to be alive, tried swimming in the water-trough, then there were five.

Five, little pet lambs bleatin at the door the farmer lost his temper then there were four.

Four little pet lambs as sweet as you could see one died of bloody awkwardness then there were three.

Three little pet lambs wonderin what to do ate a bag of barley meal and then there were two.

Two little pet lambs the smallest one set on to a ewe who went and sat on it then there was one.

One little pet lamb surprisingly got fat so we put him in the freezer and that was the end of that .....

They don’t sound very productive to me.?

Have you never heard other breeds & crosses ‘muttering’ to their lambs? Even sheep not selected for their bonny heads have a habit of doing similar, although I must admit some do just get on with the job in hand without making a song and dance of it.

 

[NZDan]

The trouble is, they'll need to spend a bit on fences, unless there's a resurgence in the wicker-gate industry. Without either, they'll need a shepherd with time to sit up all night herding them onto mangolds. Or if they try to do their own shepherding in a fashion, they'll soon realise that breeding ewes are twice the work for half the return of other enterprises.

And if sheep are still profitable in those situations, they''ll be even more profitable on cheaper hill/upland farms, where traditional farmers will stick with the trusted and tried breeds. And there will still be plenty of good quality store lambs for your arable men to buy.

Fencing is cheap, if done wisely. And yes there is money to be made on up land ground, even more money if it is fenced well. Plenty of evidence that shows that subdivision of brittle desert environments (which is what much of upland UK is) leads to massive increases of fodder production and stocking rate.
I've been on two farms in the UK which were traditional hill (heather) farms, that when subdivided were able to increase stocking rate.
The first one I saw fenced heather so that there were enough fields that the ewes spent no more than 4 days in a field and grazed it no more that twice a year, ewe numbers went from 270 to 1250 over a 5 year time span and stayed that way for 5 years, the tenancy ended and the new shepherd pulled all the fences out and went back to a traditional system, when I finished scanning there he was back down to 300 ewes.

 

[unlacedgecko]

Fencing is cheap, if done wisely. And yes there is money to be made on up land ground, even more money if it is fenced well. Plenty of evidence that shows that subdivision of brittle desert environments (which is what much of upland UK is) leads to massive increases of fodder production and stocking rate.
I've been on two farms in the UK which were traditional hill (heather) farms, that when subdivided were able to increase stocking rate.
The first one I saw fenced heather so that there were enough fields that the ewes spent no more than 4 days in a field and grazed it no more that twice a year, ewe numbers went from 270 to 1250 over a 5 year time span and stayed that way for 5 years, the tenancy ended and the new shepherd pulled all the fences out and went back to a traditional system, when I finished scanning there he was back down to 300 ewes.

In the name of grouse shooting I expect?

 

[irish dom]

The mule can certainly maintain BCS to compare favourably with its two parents, but it requires a feeding policy to regain the body reserves which are drained by its high productivity.

One trait where the mule certainly scores over its parents, and of many rival breeds and crosses, is that it will follow its very young lambs to the ends of the earth. Or at least to the tail gate of the pickup or trailer. A very valuable trait where sheep are individually shepherded, and where regard is taken in individual excellence.

What shite. There are mules who would run at top speed in the other direction if you touch their lambs. And if they are so good as you say why should you have to shepherd them individually? If that's the trait you want then OK just overlook them reaching old age at 4 crops being an unsaleable bag of bones at 5th crop and generally never making it to 6th. Couple that with fighting to buy them at silly prices so you can bring any disease the mart has home then I am glad you are delighted that the big hungry articles will walk after you carrying their lambs.

 

[NZDan]

In the name of grouse shooting I expect?

No grouse shooting there. It was odd seeing a hill side covered in posts with no netting and with disconnected water troughs everywhere.

 

[Agrivator]

Fencing is cheap, if done wisely. And yes there is money to be made on up land ground, even more money if it is fenced well. Plenty of evidence that shows that subdivision of brittle desert environments (which is what much of upland UK is) leads to massive increases of fodder production and stocking rate.
I've been on two farms in the UK which were traditional hill (heather) farms, that when subdivided were able to increase stocking rate.
The first one I saw fenced heather so that there were enough fields that the ewes spent no more than 4 days in a field and grazed it no more that twice a year, ewe numbers went from 270 to 1250 over a 5 year time span and stayed that way for 5 years, the tenancy ended and the new shepherd pulled all the fences out and went back to a traditional system, when I finished scanning there he was back down to 300 ewes.

Dan, how did the 1250 ewes on this heather hill do or manage (with by my calculation 45 separate enclosures) in a severe winter or short snowstorm.

And what did the tenant do with the 350 or so hoggs he would need for replacements?

 

[NZDan]

Dan, how did the 1250 ewes on this heather hill do or manage (with by my calculation 45 separate enclosures) in a severe winter or short snowstorm.

And what did the tenant do with the 350 or so hoggs he would need for replacements?

Hoggets were wintered off. I presume in severe weather they would be easy to deal with as they would all be in one relatively small area, there was a basic lane system so I presume shifting ewes to more sheltered fields was easy enough when severe weather is forecast.

 

[unlacedgecko]

No grouse shooting there. It was odd seeing a hill side covered in posts with no netting and with disconnected water troughs everywhere.

Why did the new tenant remove the infrastructure?!

 

[NZDan]

Why did the new tenant remove the infrastructure?!

He was a shepherd for the absentee owner didn't believe that you should have fields on Hills and that ewes should set stocked. The results I think speak for themselves.

 

[Woolless]

He was a shepherd for the absentee owner didn't believe that you should have fields on Hills and that ewes should set stocked. The results I think speak for themselves.

Well, I suppose if you're the shepherd, 300 ewes is a lot less work than 1200...

 

[unlacedgecko]

Well, I suppose if you're the shepherd, 300 ewes is a lot less work than 1200...

Depends how they're run. 1200 in one paddock on a low input system be a lot easier than 300 scattered across the entire holding needing frequent individual treatment.

Lookering alone would save huge amounts of time.

 

[mezz]

There is even a Low input CPT going ;-).
Ram lambs not docked, FEC tested at 1000 and 2000epg, dag score recorded, tail length, tail bareness, resilience, Feed efficiency and methane emissions, weight, hogget estrus, EMA, will or have all been recorded. Results from the 1st lamb drop should be available shortly.

Do you know what the correlation is between the low input breeding values and standard breeding values? Would I be right in thinking that sheep that perform well in the low input CPT, would also do reasonably well in the standard CPT, but not necessarily the other way round?

 

[Guleesh]

He was a shepherd for the absentee owner didn't believe that you should have fields on Hills and that ewes should set stocked. The results I think speak for themselves.

Do you think the ewes run were up to the job? quite a change for hill ewes to go into a system like that and I think it'd take at least 5 years to breed them into it, maybe hogg wintering costs and cost per ewe for upkeep was eating heavily into the increased turnover? - if the increased profit wasn't significant enough I can see why some wouldn't want the work, bearing in mind that subsidy payments are the no.1 reason for many to keep sheep on hills and can eclipse profits in some cases.

 

[Agrivator]

The only way to obtain the truth is to speak to the neighbours.

 

[NZDan]

Do you think the ewes run were up to the job? quite a change for hill ewes to go into a system like that and I think it'd take at least 5 years to breed them into it, maybe hogg wintering costs and cost per ewe for upkeep was eating heavily into the increased turnover? - if the increased profit wasn't significant enough I can see why some wouldn't want the work, bearing in mind that subsidy payments are the no.1 reason for many to keep sheep on hills and can eclipse profits in some cases.

I saw it after it had reverted back, but from talking to neighbors they increased ewe numbers and aimed to maintain similar performance as far as lambing % and weaning weight. With such a rapid increase in numbers they had to buy in ewes to increase numbers fast enough. Hoggs were always wintered off, even when i was there after the fences were pulled out they still wintered hoggs off. Maybe the increase in production didn't pay for the fences, but I suspect it did, ironically the results were published in a Canadian journal but not in the UK, even though the research was done in the UK. It is a shame that subsidies distort things so much, I'm convinced a system like what was at Strachur, would pay with out subsidies.
How did we go from talking about Stablizer Cattle to hill grazing systems?

 

[Poorbuthappy]

The only way to obtain the truth is to speak to the neighbours.

Whilst I may see some of the stuff my neighbours get up to, I certainly dont know what their profitability is.

 

[Agrivator]

Whilst I may see some of the stuff my neighbours get up to, I certainly dont know what their profitability is.

But I think it's also true that other folk know us better than we know ourselves. But most of them are too polite to say so.

Oh would some power the gift to gee us, to see ourselves as others see us.

 

[Poorbuthappy]

But I think it's also true that other folk know us better than we know ourselves. But most of them are too polite to say so.

Oh would some power the gift to gee us, to see ourselves as others see us.

There's truth in that of course, but looking in as a neighbour, I may consider someone to be running a good operation, but actually they're losing money, whilst another may appear a Heath Robinson outfit, but is actually making good money.

 

[Guleesh]

I saw it after it had reverted back, but from talking to neighbors they increased ewe numbers and aimed to maintain similar performance as far as lambing % and weaning weight. With such a rapid increase in numbers they had to buy in ewes to increase numbers fast enough. Hoggs were always wintered off, even when i was there after the fences were pulled out they still wintered hoggs off. Maybe the increase in production didn't pay for the fences, but I suspect it did, ironically the results were published in a Canadian journal but not in the UK, even though the research was done in the UK. It is a shame that subsidies distort things so much, I'm convinced a system like what was at Strachur, would pay with out subsidies.
How did we go from talking about Stablizer Cattle to hill grazing systems?

I'd imagine the profit margin would've kept increasing if they'd kept it going for a few more years, quite a long term investment.
I better not say too much about subsidy.
All I know about stabilizers are they're the little outrigger wheels that stop the kids bikes from falling over.

 

[Woolless]

There's truth in that of course, but looking in as a neighbour, I may consider someone to be running a good operation, but actually they're losing money, whilst another may appear a Heath Robinson outfit, but is actually making good money.

@Agrivator makes a good point but you're right, without seeing the books it's not the full story.