Who is REALLY paying for AG Subsidies???......... THE RICH

[FonterraFarmer]

If the rest of the world removed their subsidies at the same time, I'd be all for it!

Makes no difference here, 1984/5 has been and gone years ago.

 

[ollie989898]

I would love to write a blind poll for this.

If the majority of the serious dairy farmers here were honest, they would tell you they do not need their SFP, and would rather have a weaker pound to stop Irish cheese imports, milk at 30p and probably lower rents for ground they might have their eye on. To most of them SFP is just a paperwork PITA.

I do not understand the differences for those involved in beef and sheep, particularly those in the uplands but that kind of thing is all the rage in NZ. I just don't see what they are doing as being that revolutionary. They grow grass, fatten stuff and flog it with minimal fuss. It's not something we can't copy surely.

 

[digger64]

To get back to what i was saying about scale earlier if you fatten 500 head of cattle the sub will be of less relevance to you than if you fatten 50

Nòt sure about that I think you will find that the sub is used to justify the store price atm

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I do not understand the differences for those involved in beef and sheep, particularly those in the uplands but that kind of thing is all the rage in NZ. I just don't see what they are doing as being that revolutionary. They grow grass, fatten stuff and flog it with minimal fuss. It's not something we can't copy surely.

Don't forget, by not putting on much fert, the price is effectively about half what it was back in the days of subsidy here. Taking all things like inflation into account. Have just been reading up on 1981s books on the family place and a lot of their costs were way higher than in latter years. IF (big if) your subs are cut, then most of the essential costs you have now, will be reduced by an amount to compensate. Remember that supply and demand thing goes both ways!

 

[Bossfarmer]

Really? The only time that food security has been an issue in recent history to my mind has been in wars of national survival, do you envisage one occurring in the near future?

possible, what I do envisage is some big weather events soon affecting wheat supply we are due one and also a food shortage in the near future as the population is ever growing

 

[Bossfarmer]

Nòt sure about that I think you will find that the sub is used to justify the store price atm

your not sure?? read the post again

 

[Bossfarmer]

What?? You think the Conservatives are in favour of the current sub system?? They are pro free market. I do hope you're not relying on them to deliver your free money!!

The point I was making was that there is no party in the UK supporting the current system. Not one. So the current sub system will end. No ifs or buts. Best thing you can do is get acquainted with Excel and work out how you can farm without the taxpayer. Or you could just keep flogging a dead horse on here.

it was an example

 

[Agrispeed]

possible, what I do envisage is some big weather events soon affecting wheat supply we are due one and also a food shortage in the near future as the population is ever growing

In which case we are surely much better importing as we can access a global market, which is much less likely to be wholly effected, compared to the UK which is a small country, which is much more likely to see total crop loss in such a situation.

 

[Old McDonald]

Im not against support or education in agriculture, im just against massive, indiscriminate support for business.

+1

 

[Hilly]

Who said anything about sucklers? I know of people fattening 500 head of cattle with under 30k of subs, i know of farmers fattening 50 on similar sized sub, who will be more affected?

Ive over 500 head and less than 30k, as every year passes it becomes less important which pleases me immensely.

 

[Henarar]

In which case we are surely much better importing as we can access a global market, which is much less likely to be wholly effected, compared to the UK which is a small country, which is much more likely to see total crop loss in such a situation.

we are better of as a country buying food from this country, once money goes out of the country it don't come back in a hurry
importing everything just cos its a quid cheaper = short-termism

 

[Henarar]

Ive over 500 head and less than 30k, as every year passes it becomes less important which pleases me immensely.

you will lose more than me if subs go, I get a part share of 1/4 of that

 

[Hilly]

you will lose more than me if subs go, I get a part share of 1/4 of that

sh!t load of them up here on over 100k one in million bracket, im not worried in the slightest.

 

[Brisel]

So subsidy to buy that new tractor every 3 years or 2500-3000 hours? ffs you should be able to run them for at least a minimum of 20,000 hours+.

Nothing wrong with running older gear but if you run 3 newer tractors you'd need 4-5 older ones to do the same job as you'd have at least one undergoing major repair at any one time for 20,000 hrs+. Just because something isn't depreciating doesn't mean it's not costing you in other ways.

 

[Brisel]

I doubt you will have 50 sucklers on the area of land which will carry 500 though ffs.

Feedlot

and the Scottish historic basis BPS doesn't help either

 

[FonterraFarmer]

Don't forget, by not putting on much fert, the price is effectively about half what it was back in the days of subsidy here. Taking all things like inflation into account. Have just been reading up on 1981s books on the family place and a lot of their costs were way higher than in latter years. IF (big if) your subs are cut, then most of the essential costs you have now, will be reduced by an amount to compensate. Remember that supply and demand thing goes both ways!

Imagine if we could not import Landrovers into NZ or the UK could not export Landrovers out of the UK?

 

[Bossfarmer]

In which case we are surely much better importing as we can access a global market, which is much less likely to be wholly effected, compared to the UK which is a small country, which is much more likely to see total crop loss in such a situation.

?? ive seen 400 acre fields in oz destroyed with frost, ive never had a total crop loss situation here I think you are talking nonsense now

 

[le bon paysan]

Answer this question seriously, would you run down to your local shops and price everything just to prove a point on an internet forum???

I would just consult the till receipts that my wife brings back from the shops. As she has just done.

 

[Two Tone]

D'you know what? For a long time now I have thought that there are possibly two thing that have buggered up British farming:
An over-valued £.
Farm support with strings attached to get it.

Of course we will find it difficult to survive without support. To this end, the NFU has pointed out to Government that there are more people involved in British agriculture and it's associated supply industry than the whole of the automotive and aircraft manufacture/airport industries put together. Therefore suggesting that we should continue to be supported. Philip Hammond apparently agrees according to Meurig Raymand.

This obviously doesn't bode well if you think subsidies/support are in fact a bad thing for British Farmers.

BUT why worry? There's a hell lot of guys on here that are doing an absolutely first class, fantastic job of talking themselves out of getting them after Brexit.

Keep it up!

 

[Agrispeed]

?? ive seen 400 acre fields in oz destroyed with frost, ive never had a total crop loss situation here I think you are talking nonsense now

But we might? we've seen bad years for spuds, OSR in the last decade or so. In which case if you really consider food security a priority you would import from as diverse a geographical area as possible - Think F&M or bird flu - its a lot safer to have as wide a catchment for our food as possible. If we have strong trade links we are much more likely to be able to import food easily if we are short. If we are an isolationist country we don't have any links, and we have much less of an area to export with two - Trade has to happen in both directions. This is the problem with isolationist policies. Look at the states in the 1930's.

Trying to become self sufficient would likely end up with a lower farm gate price.