Would this work on cattle?

[Sir loin]

A week ago my daughters mare foaled a first time mare all went well and she foaled very quick (watched it on camera) then the problems started when the mare never licked or wanted the foal and wasn't for letting it suckle, kicking out etc so foal in danger of not getting colostrum. We rang the vet and she came and injected the mare with 3ml of prostaglandin. Within 15 minutes the mare was a different creature couldn't be more motherly, licking and presenting for the foal to suckle no kicking etc it was unbelievable to see the changes in her so quickly. So I straight away asked would this work for a heifer that was rejecting a calf, don't know was the reply give it a go anyone else seen this in foaling and better still anyone else tried it on a heifer.

 

[shearerlad]

That’s very interesting. I wonder if it would also work on sheep, save heck of a work and hassle not having to use head yokes/halters etc

 

[Mr Mackay]

Yes , thats very interesting - I agree

 

[M-J-G]

Didn't the vet explain the science behind it?

 

[Sir loin]

she was an equine vet and it was 3 o'clock in the morning

 

[yellowbelly]

Very interesting

It's a pity we upset old @bovine ,he would have given us chapter and verse.

Any other vets care to comment? @Woolless @Doc ???

 

[Hilly]

Didn't the vet explain the science behind it?

Come on then , we know you want to ?
Currently have a heifer reheating her calf , worth a go or not ?

 

[Woolless]

Very interesting

It's a pity we upset old @bovine ,he would have given us chapter and verse.

Any other vets care to comment? @Woolless @Doc ???

Had to hit the books (well, Google?) for this one as my knowledge of stud medicine is somewhat out of date! In horses, like cattle, prostaglandin is normally used to knock out a corpus luteum and bring the non-pregnant mare back in to season. In this case, the mechanism is that the prostaglandin triggers oxytocin release. Oxytocin is the hormone which stimulates milk let-down and maternal bonding.

So, I think it would work in sheep and cattle. But, not being in practice, I'm not sure of how closely vet's these days control it i.e. vet only injection? I think there's an oxytocin injection anyway which should do the same job?

 

[M-J-G]

Come on then , we know you want to ?
Currently have a heifer reheating her calf , worth a go or not ?

I was asking?
I didn't know until @Woolless explained.

 

[M-J-G]

Had to hit the books (well, Google?) for this one as my knowledge of stud medicine is somewhat out of date! In horses, like cattle, prostaglandin is normally used to knock out a corpus luteum and bring the non-pregnant mare back in to season. In this case, the mechanism is that the prostaglandin triggers oxytocin release. Oxytocin is the hormone which stimulates milk let-down and maternal bonding.

So, I think it would work in sheep and cattle. But, not being in practice, I'm not sure of how closely vet's these days control it i.e. vet only injection? I think there's an oxytocin injection anyway which should do the same job?

Why not just jab her with oxytocin?

 

[shearerlad]

Why not just jab her with oxytocin?

Wondering if the prostaglandin pathway that triggers the oxytocin release and then it’s effect that is causing the quick change on mothering rather than the simple oxytocin as a 1 hormone, 1 response scenario. Hope that makes sense.

Just thinking out loud and maybe completely up the wrong dreel

 

[som farmer]

perhaps this should be re-posted, in the multi suckling post, certainly would have tried it then.

 

[yellowbelly]

Wondering if the prostaglandin pathway that triggers the oxytocin release and then it’s effect that is causing the quick change on mothering rather than the simple oxytocin as a 1 hormone, 1 response scenario. Hope that makes sense.

Just thinking out loud and maybe completely up the wrong dreel.

Sounds a good theory to me

Use Oxytocin S here for odd ewes that are slow to let their milk down. Not noticed any surge in mothering instincts. Will take more notice in future.

 

[Woolless]

Why not just jab her with oxytocin?

Wondering if the prostaglandin pathway that triggers the oxytocin release and then it’s effect that is causing the quick change on mothering rather than the simple oxytocin as a 1 hormone, 1 response scenario. Hope that makes sense.

Just thinking out loud and maybe completely up the wrong dreel

I think @shearerlad may be along the right lines here but my endocrinology is even shakier than my equine stud medicine. Regarding the OP, maybe the equine vet used prostaglandin because oxytocin isn't licensed for horses, or some similar issue? Thinking back, I have used oxytocin as a lambing g student and I don't remember it being that effective full stop.

 

[MRT]

If prostaglandins isn't vet only it should be

 

[M-J-G]

I think @shearerlad may be along the right lines here but my endocrinology is even shakier than my equine stud medicine. Regarding the OP, maybe the equine vet used prostaglandin because oxytocin isn't licensed for horses, or some similar issue? Thinking back, I have used oxytocin as a lambing g student and I don't remember it being that effective full stop.

Maybe she just didn't have oxytocin if it's not licensed for nags, and her being a nag only vet.

 

[Danllan]

I didn't know @Woolless is a vet... no clues...

I've a chum who specialised in equine, I'll ask him if he thinks it's a goer.


In the meantime... is it expensive and could a farmer get it to do it himself?

 

[Danllan]

Right, after the usual sarcasm at my veterinary ignorance I have a short answer = no.

And a slightly longer answer = You give oxytocin when you want the effects of oxytocin. You give PGF-2a when you want the effects of PGF-2A. the prostaglandin was probably more likely to kick her out of foal heat, not to stop mismothering.

 

[Woolless]

Right, after the usual sarcasm at my veterinary ignorance I have a short answer = no.

And a slightly longer answer = You give oxytocin when you want the effects of oxytocin. You give PGF-2a when you want the effects of PGF-2A. the prostaglandin was probably more likely to kick her out of foal heat, not to stop mismothering.

Foal heat is about a week after foaling and this prostaglandin was administered shortly after foaling, so I doubt it was for that. My googling found a study on the BEVA website from last year with a very high success rate from administering prostaglandin to mares that were reluctant to mother their foals and also an article by a top stud vet from Kentucky advocating the same thing.

But that doesn't explain why you wouldn't just give oxytocin

 

[Dry Rot]

Before foaling starts here I usually get oxytocin from my vet in case there is a mare with a retained cleansing, so licensed for equines and considered safe for the lay owner to use. I don't think retained cleansings are as much of a problem in sheep and cattle but it can be a serious problem in horses.

Never had any problems with a mare's mothering instincts but mine are Highland ponies so usually pretty straight forward. I have been told by other breeders not to interfere between mare and foal as sometimes the mothering instinct does not 'click in'. But I am a great believer in leaving things to Nature anyway.