Ploughing today

John 1594 · Feb 2, 2017

Pennine Ploughing said:
After having a look at the picture on pc, and blowing it up to see better, (eyes not as good as years ago)
if you take a look at the blue dots across the back of the boards they line up, but the red dot on 3rd furrow is low,
i would say the frog has moved up at the front on the leg,
2 reasons, 1st the back of the board is down, 2nd that furrow is light, I know you said you were ploughing 2 front furrows back in, but the way i see it, there is no way that crown was level,
you also said you did not like the way the point is pinned on to the frog, and you drilled and bolted them,
the point is meant to fit well onto the frog, by this it needs to be a good fit on all 3 sides, on the top, down the side, and the 2 lips on the underside, this all intern stops the tip of the point waving about as it likes, and also John in an earlier post you did use the term "within a few millimeters", i am sorry to say but if it is not spot on, then it will not be right,
View attachment 464740
also the rough furrow (white arrow) wall left by not having a disc on, will not steady the plough as it should,
there is a lot more to the rear landslide that meets the untrained eye,
and if the point can swivel at all side to side, then it will go to the left looking from behind, this will mean it can and more than likely take a bigger bite, and then the landslide will have nothing to run on, thus it will mean it will tail whip to land till its got something to rest on,

it you look at the drop arms (colored dots yellow and green) the yellow dot are more vertical as the link arm is nearer to center of tractor, where the green dots are lying over, and the link arm is nearer the tyre than to center,
i asked about the front wheels, and you said they are inline on inside of rear tyre, so that rules that out,
your lower link arm on the left may be a little longer, again you said beet drill was ok,

so its down to 2 things, either the rear body is not running right, (the rear landslide must run to ploughed land at the front, and to unploughed land at the rear, NOT the case of the rear landslide should run parallel to the beam, as you will never control the plough if it is like that,
or when you did the full nut and bolt rebuild, the plates for holding the cross shaft are the wrong way round, mean the cross shaft is not running square

Didnt have cross shaft plates off..so can cross that off the list.

Im thinking cross shaft, no was is it lift arms as it ploughs perfect with a tsr 102

Going to have it on the pallet forks saturday and measure again after shimming that loose point on no4, the point with a larger hole which still would not hold effectively with a peg.

Il lay money its all sqaure and purely down to the cross shaft and lift rod settings

Roy Stokes · Feb 2, 2017

John 1594 said:
Thats encouraging to know, given you obviously know what angle the cross shaft is at

i was beginning to warm to your advice, however given that last remark, its clear you no longer have anything of value to add to the discussion, so i will refrain from reading anymore in to it.

How much would it have taken for someone to walk over and say "just slide that cross shaft over a bit"

a point to remember with this entire forum, is that the advice given is worth what you paid for it

and on that note...

I have of course enjoyed putting you right on one or two things John as before your failed attempt to show us how to plough you seemed to think we proper ploughmen were a bunch of amatuer gardeners or dimwits, or anywhere between the 2, I would like to say you have learned the hard way but despite 3 of us now pointing out the major fault with your plough you seem to have failed to take it on board.

Previously on the forum you have stated that you once competed at a ploughing match but found the other competitors somewhat ignorant or words used to that effect, it may be that either they knew you well or your attitude on that day put them off as I find most ploughmen to be gentlemen and if treated with the respect they deserve are more than happy to share all they know.
Howard 150 on here told me to listen and take on board everything that everyone says at a ploughing match, make up your own mind which advice to follow by but remember it all, very good advice.

Before I sign off this post I would like to once again congratulate Brian and Emma on a job very well done, I have already congratulated Brian by PM but he told me Emma did all the work, anyway whoever did all the work a huge round of applause to you both

Will 1594 · Feb 2, 2017

John 1594 said:
Didnt have cross shaft plates off..so can cross that off the list.

Im thinking cross shaft, no was is it lift arms as it ploughs perfect with a tsr 102

Going to have it on the pallet forks saturday and measure again after shimming that loose point on no4, the point with a larger hole which still would not hold effectively with a peg.

Il lay money its all sqaure and purely down to the cross shaft and lift rod settings

Maybe bouncing it down road sat on the 3rd furrow on your lowloader did it no favours

bobk · Feb 2, 2017

And I thought it was all about taking part .

John 1594 · Feb 2, 2017

bobk said:
And I thought it was all about taking part .

Only if your face fits...

and your willing to pander to the superiority of all the other "experts" in the field on that particular day.

the arse licking that has to take place to secure your position at the top of the tree is particulary distastefully

John 1594 · Feb 2, 2017

Will 1594 said:
Maybe bouncing it down road sat on the 3rd furrow on your lowloader did it no favours

You may have hit the nail squarely on the head there..as it seems strange it was going ok before

yorkie · Feb 2, 2017

John 1594 said:
Only if your face fits...

You have only just cottoned on to that,when I went to first match at new job in 2008,came away with 5 cups including over all out of 86,with a standerd lemken reversible with slats straight from field,not good with been a forener to area,from then on always got worst plot in field,it's all taken very seriously

Howard150 · Feb 2, 2017

Roy Stokes said:
I have of course enjoyed putting you right on one or two things John as before your failed attempt to show us how to plough you seemed to think we proper ploughmen were a bunch of amatuer gardeners or dimwits, or anywhere between the 2, I would like to say you have learned the hard way but despite 3 of us now pointing out the major fault with your plough you seem to have failed to take it on board.

Previously on the forum you have stated that you once competed at a ploughing match but found the other competitors somewhat ignorant or words used to that effect, it may be that either they knew you well or your attitude on that day put them off as I find most ploughmen to be gentlemen and if treated with the respect they deserve are more than happy to share all they know.
Howard 150 on here told me to listen and take on board everything that everyone says at a ploughing match, make up your own mind which advice to follow by but remember it all, very good advice.

Before I sign off this post I would like to once again congratulate Brian and Emma on a job very well done, I have already congratulated Brian by PM but he told me Emma did all the work, anyway whoever did all the work a huge round of applause to you both

A good, level headed and fair post. Every day's a school day. Each day we go out there is a lesson to be learned - some the easy way - and as Our freind John has just found out, some the hard way, even if it is just to keep your gob shut!

A good pot of money made for a very good cause, well done the Organisers.

I do think that Lynnnews (producers of a very fine article posted here earlier) need taking to task for omitting to picture or mention the guy who has turned out to be the star on here - our very own John 1594!, Our unfortunate hero who mistakenly thinks that good ploughmen only get to be good ploughmen because either A their face fits, or B they are arselickers, maybe it's just because they can plough, something so obviously lacking from our hero's resume.

Just as an aside for those relatively new ploughmen who think they are badly done to, it gets harder the higher up the tree you go. Keep at it. Or in pseudo Latin
Noli illigitimi carborundum. Don't ever forget - they can't stop you ploughing.

John 1594 · Feb 3, 2017

Howard150 said:
A good, level headed and fair post. Every day's a school day. Each day we go out there is a lesson to be learned - some the easy way - and as Our freind John has just found out, some the hard way, even if it is just to keep your gob shut!

A good pot of money made for a very good cause, well done the Organisers.

I do think that Lynnnews (producers of a very fine article posted here earlier) need taking to task for omitting to picture or mention the guy who has turned out to be the star on here - our very own John 1594!, Our unfortunate hero who mistakenly thinks that good ploughmen only get to be good ploughmen because either A their face fits, or B they are arselickers, maybe it's just because they can plough, something so obviously lacking from our hero's resume.

Just as an aside for those relatively new ploughmen who think they are badly done to, it gets harder the higher up the tree you go. Keep at it. Or in pseudo Latin
Noli illigitimi carborundum. Don't ever forget - they can't stop you ploughing.

Ever thought about appearing on mock the week?

with personalities like yours in ploughing, it is no wonder its difficult to get youngsters to compete in what widely percieved as a sport for sarcastic, grumpy old men

A stereotype you fit into perfectly and surely deserve first prize for

Howard150 · Feb 3, 2017

John 1594 said:
Ever thought about appearing on mock the week?

with personalities like yours in ploughing, it is no wonder its difficult to get youngsters to compete in what widely percieved as a sport for sarcastic, grumpy old men

A stereotype you fit into perfectly and surely deserve first prize for

Thank you John for your kind words. There are a few of us on here whose reputation goes before us - as does our list of successes and young ploughmen who we have helped unreservedly.

What you seem to forget is that the young ploughmen we have helped actually asked to be helped, significantly different from the stance you so regularly take on the moral high ground, telling us all how to go on. Stand back and take a look at where you are John, treat your betters with a little bit more respect and most important of all, open up to the fact that you might well be a "bit lower up" the pecking order than you thought!

Have a lovely day. Dave

ffukedfarmer · Feb 3, 2017

John 1594 said:
Only if your face fits...

and your willing to pander to the superiority of all the other "experts" in the field on that particular day.

the arse licking that has to take place to secure your position at the top of the tree is particulary distastefully

What a load of rubbish

I used to plough many matches a season and there was only one occasion where I felt my placing wasn't justified - I was disqualified for going over time because that society didn't allow extra time for marking out on an end plot.
I went to many a match all over the country as a new entrant and almost without fail was made to feel very welcome. Maybe it is an attitude thing.

Ley253 · Feb 3, 2017

ffukedfarmer said:
What a load of rubbish

I used to plough many matches a season and there was only one occasion where I felt my placing wasn't justified - I was disqualified for going over time because that society didn't allow extra time for marking out on an end plot.
I went to many a match all over the country as a new entrant and almost without fail was made to feel very welcome. Maybe it is an attitude thing.

It may be better down there, but for example, there is a match in North Wales where the same man has been awarded first for the last three years, when on at least two occasions he was far from that position, but no doubt his having Dinner with the (same) judge before the match every year was worth a few points. Being English, I expect the hill to be steeper, but even the top Welsh men are getting unhappy.
The main problem is entrenched views, not (At most matches) deliberate adjustments, Judges are known to have attended a seminar, and then gone on doing things in their old way. You also have the problem of too many plots, when this happens, the judges tend to pick out those they think will be near the top, and concentrate on them, the rest get a quick look over, and as this division is made early on, the up and coming ploughman may not be noticed, as not being a "name" he would be in the latter section, and his slow improvements may not stand out enough..

REStracTORATION · Feb 3, 2017

Roy Stokes said:
View attachment 463590

For Christ sake let me keep it straight as the eyes of the Farming Forum are upon me and my reputation is at stake here ..............................

Who is that! And who's is that tractor...??

joe soapy · Feb 3, 2017

The clue to the problem was on page 2, he bent the only straight leg to match the 3 bent ones

Kevtherev · Feb 3, 2017

Robigus · Feb 3, 2017

Howard150 said:
Stand back and take a look at where you are John, treat your betters with a little bit more respect......

Have a lovely day. Dave

Well there's your mistake. John has no betters!

Cordiale · Feb 6, 2017

I have really enjoyed reading this thread. It intrigues me what you boys can glean from a few photo's about how a plough is running. But in my opinion the problem was as stated in post 11, the boards were dull hence soil did not flow freely. Couple this with low resistant fluffy soil, frost lifted top long/chopped stubble and it cant possibly run true if it's sticking to the boards, it's bound to push everything towards the land. Only when John has shone his plough up and got the boards polished will he be able to begin to start getting it set to make a decent job.

Roy Stokes · Feb 6, 2017

Cordiale said:
I have really enjoyed reading this thread. It intrigues me what you boys can glean from a few photo's about how a plough is running. But in my opinion the problem was as stated in post 11, the boards were dull hence soil did not flow freely. Couple this with low resistant fluffy soil, frost lifted top long/chopped stubble and it cant possibly run true if it's sticking to the boards, it's bound to push everything towards the land. Only when John has shone his plough up and got the boards polished will he be able to begin to start getting it set to make a decent job.

Quite correct but the 3rd board still looks low, 3 of us can see it

Howard150 · Feb 7, 2017

Cordiale said:
I have really enjoyed reading this thread. It intrigues me what you boys can glean from a few photo's about how a plough is running. But in my opinion the problem was as stated in post 11, the boards were dull hence soil did not flow freely. Couple this with low resistant fluffy soil, frost lifted top long/chopped stubble and it cant possibly run true if it's sticking to the boards, it's bound to push everything towards the land. Only when John has shone his plough up and got the boards polished will he be able to begin to start getting it set to make a decent job.

We all enjoyed reading this thread Codiale, each sarcastic grumpy old one of us. Sarcastic and grumpy we may or may not be depending on perspective.
Well used to the vagaries of Ramsomes YL's used commercially then we definitely are, most of us being introduced to mouldboard ploughs equipped with YL's when we were boys o so long ago.
Any ploughman worthy of telling others how to go on would know to get hold of a 3 or 4 furrow and if lucky enough to have enough undamaged bits, make a good 2 furrow out of it.
As regards dull bodies then its a dull boy who would turn up with rusty bodies and expect them to plough. Most of us know that bright bodies dulled by salt from the journey home will not plough. We also know that in flyaway land that there are twice as many opportunities to compact loose ground with a two furrow than there are with a four. We also know that a plough with legs bent as badly as shown in the posts will have come from badish ground and the greater probability is that the frogs will be in far worse condition.
Rather than being from post 11, I think things were going wrong way way before then......'Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall'

Cordiale · Feb 7, 2017

Roy, I wasn't suggesting that no3 hadn't moved, but even if it hadn't no way could he have expected it to run well.Also are the long metal bars sticking up from the frame the skimmer stalks? If so looks like you could plough deeper with the Simms than the boards, the front one also looks at an angle suggesting stalk or beam are out of true.
Howard 150 I totally agree with all you have said I just hadn't got the courage to be so blunt. As for YL's I cut my teeth on them. I ounce let them get rusty, never again.

Ploughing today

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