Massey 165 MK2 1972 Hydraulic pump

Old crofter · Aug 15, 2023

I've just gone to lift my mower to cut sileage and it's got half the lifting power from as before, it won't lift the mower into its up right position.
How big a job in time is it to fit a new pump into the gearbox, I don't want to give up on getting the sileage done. They're not cheap I've got a price of £1666 plus vat

Thanks

flywheel · Aug 15, 2023

You did fit top link to bottom of the 3 top link holes ?

agrimax · Aug 15, 2023

Hang on... Stating the obvious I know, but is the oil level good? What about the filter?Then a pressure test...

Old crofter · Aug 15, 2023

flywheel said:
You did fit top link to bottom of the 3 top link holes ?

The toplink hasn't been changed at all, just as it always was

Old crofter · Aug 15, 2023

agrimax said:
Hang on... Stating the obvious I know, but is the oil level good? What about the filter?Then a pressure test...

Yes the oil is clean and up to max level, it just doesn't seem to have enough pressure to lift even the mower blades assembly into the upright position. It lifts it part way and then stops, seems to be struggling then

agrimax · Aug 15, 2023

Pressure test required then. May just be the pump relief valve has gone weak.
Are you lifting the mower bed up through a spool valve or on the quadrant? If via spool,the fault may be in it instead. Ie the spool relief valve could have dirt stuck in it or developed a weak spring.

Old crofter · Aug 15, 2023

agrimax said:
Pressure test required then. May just be the pump relief valve has gone weak.
Are you lifting the mower bed up through a spool valve or on the quadrant? If via spool,the fault may be in it instead. Ie the spool relief valve could have dirt stuck in it or developed a weak spring.

Pardon my ignorance, how does one fit a pressure tester. I've tried both with the spool valve and the quadrant, neither does lift well. Is it easy to replace the pressure relief valve?
Thanks

agrimax · Aug 15, 2023

Just a pressure gauge up to 3000 lbs per sq inch with a fitting the same as is on the end of the hydraulic hose to the mower,that connects where you attach the hose.
I have replaced the relief valve on a 135 through the side plate, which was a little awkward iirc, but don't know about a 165.
If it does turn out to be the pump at fault, they can be rebuilt. If it's a non multi power, the pump will come out through the top when the lid is removed but afaik,multipower versions need split between the gearbox and back axle to get the pump out.
The experts may advise more...
@masseybreaker
@SMID
@dee

Old crofter · Aug 15, 2023

agrimax said:
Just a pressure gauge up to 3000 lbs per sq inch with a fitting the same as is on the end of the hydraulic hose to the mower,that connects where you attach the hose.
I have replaced the relief valve on a 135 through the side plate, which was a little awkward iirc, but don't know about a 165.
If it does turn out to be the pump at fault, they can be rebuilt. If it's a non multi power, the pump will come out through the top when the lid is removed but afaik,multipower versions need split between the gearbox and back axle to get the pump out.
The experts may advise more...
@masseybreaker
@SMID
@dee

Thanks a lot, that's very helpful... It's not a multi power and I have a mobile engine hoist to lift the top plate . That's tomorrow's job ....
There's aftermarket pumps for as low as £225 plus vat , not sure if they would be ok, any opinions?

Cowabunga · Aug 15, 2023

The aftermarket pumps should be fine. They make or made Ferguson pumps in India and probably Pakistan as well as very possibly Poland and Turkey. These were/are fitted to licensed builders of MF tractors over the years, such as TAFE, Ursus and many others.

As an aside, I still remember the registration number of my old 165 and it was sold over 20 years ago. Maybe someone still runs it? PEJ 527L

agrimax · Aug 15, 2023

Massey Ferguson Hydraulic Pump Removal

Agriline Diesel technical assistance article on how to remove the hydraulic pump and lift cover on Massey Ferguson models 35, 65, 135, 165, 188, 240 tractors

www.agriline.co.za

Yes,the replacement I fitted in the 135 was from Whitehouse Products and it was made in India. Works fine.

MF-ANDY · Aug 15, 2023

As agrimax asked, are we talking link arms or spool valve here

agrimax · Aug 15, 2023

Don't know why I forgot to put you on the 'tag' list above MF-ANDY... :scratchhead:

Old crofter mentioned trying it on both spool and quadrant but it made no difference.

Old crofter · Aug 15, 2023

Thanks all, I've got a new pump being ordered, it's made in Turkey with a years warranty. There's a bit of info admittedly multi power so not my standard 165 but helpful none the less, along with your link Agrimax...cheers Hubert

Old crofter · Aug 15, 2023

MF-ANDY said:
As agrimax asked, are we talking link arms or spool valve here

Link arms got sorted MFAndy , two of the stubs shifted the other two had to have holes blown through with a propane oxygen torch to get them to shift. The two pins bolts and lock nuts were £184!!!!

yellowbelly · Aug 15, 2023

Old crofter said:
I've just gone to lift my mower to cut sileage and it's got half the lifting power from as before, it won't lift the mower into its up right position.
How big a job in time is it to fit a new pump into the gearbox, I don't want to give up on getting the sileage done. They're not cheap I've got a price of £1666 plus vat

Thanks

Woah, woah, woah

before you get too 'spanner happy', has anybody suggested looking at the suction filter gauze.

It's located under a 3 bolt domed housing underneath the transmission housing. If it's never been cleaned out it may be full of crud and restricting oil flow.
You'll have to drop the oil but cleaning it is only a few minutes job and may save you riving it apart to fit a new pump.

Old crofter · Aug 15, 2023

yellowbelly said:
Woah, woah, woah before you get too 'spanner happy', has anybody suggested looking at the suction filter gauze.

It's located under a 3 bolt domed housing underneath the transmission housing. If it's never been cleaned out it may be full of crud and restricting oil flow.
You'll have to drop the oil but cleaning it is only a few minutes job and may save you riving it apart to fit a new pump.

I wasn't aware there was one, in fact pretty sure there isn't one on my 72 165 standard not multipower. The pump has a gauze and mesh filter on its side that's all.

agrimax · Aug 15, 2023

Filter has been mentioned above. Filter through the side plate on a mk 2 pump.

Cowabunga · Aug 15, 2023

yellowbelly said:
Woah, woah, woah before you get too 'spanner happy', has anybody suggested looking at the suction filter gauze.

It's located under a 3 bolt domed housing underneath the transmission housing. If it's never been cleaned out it may be full of crud and restricting oil flow.
You'll have to drop the oil but cleaning it is only a few minutes job and may save you riving it apart to fit a new pump.

I do not believe a 1972 built model will have this. Probably not even a flat plate in the same place. 1974 tractors with the longer PTO shaft stub will have this access point.

MF-ANDY · Aug 15, 2023

Don't think you'll be able to change an auxiliary pump through the top cover and if you have auxiliary pump I don't think you can change the linkage pump through the top cover either.

Massey 165 MK2 1972 Hydraulic pump

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