Beltex on NCM ewe lambs

Junior · Oct 25, 2023

Generally we tup 100+ April lambing ewe lambs to Charolais, with good results lambing outdoors. A mate of mine (who has a lot of sheep experience in NZ) was over when we weaned that bunch and suggested I try a beltex so we got more away finished at weaning (late July). I was unsure but bought a modest beltex anyway convincing myself they’d lamb ok. A week before tupping I’m doubting myself.
Has anyone tried this and with what results ?
TIA

Gedd · Oct 25, 2023

Junior said:
Generally we tup 100+ April lambing ewe lambs to Charolais, with good results lambing outdoors. A mate of mine (who has a lot of sheep experience in NZ) was over when we weaned that bunch and suggested I try a beltex so we got more away finished at weaning (late July). I was unsure but bought a modest beltex anyway convincing myself they’d lamb ok. A week before tupping I’m doubting myself.
Has anyone tried this and with what results ?
TIA

Tried a beltex once on mules didnt grow fast enough compared to the suffolk each to there own

Man_in_black · Oct 25, 2023

Junior said:
so we got more away finished at weaning

So your mate thinks beltex will finish before charolais???

Junior · Oct 25, 2023

Man_in_black said:
So your mate thinks beltex will finish before charolais???

He thinks we could have more away sooner yes, I often find we have a lot of stores off that particular bunch
Sorry I should have mentioned that we creep lambs reared by ewe lambs

Aspiring Peasants · Oct 25, 2023

Junior said:
Generally we tup 100+ April lambing ewe lambs to Charolais, with good results lambing outdoors. A mate of mine (who has a lot of sheep experience in NZ) was over when we weaned that bunch and suggested I try a beltex so we got more away finished at weaning (late July). I was unsure but bought a modest beltex anyway convincing myself they’d lamb ok. A week before tupping I’m doubting myself.
Has anyone tried this and with what results ?
TIA

This is going to be controversial

PS Beltex should be easy lambed from a mule, but then about anything is

Anymulewilldo · Oct 25, 2023

Yes, use beltex on mule hoggs. Lamb like shelling peas. Sharp lambs but they won’t be rushed to finish well

Man_in_black · Oct 25, 2023

I'd say the charolais would lamb just as easily. I'm assuming they're well grown ewe lambs, and you've no worries regarding milk production. With enough milk id expect charolais lambs to finish weeks before beltex. But they will be greedy buggers due to growth so can drag the ewe-lamb down. Beltex sired lambs will be easier on dam in that sense.

neilo · Oct 25, 2023

A Beltex (a proper, small one, not a Texel x) has a low mature weight, closely corelated to a low birth weight. I used them on hoggs and the are generally small lambs born, which is key to an easy birth out of hoggs.

Their other advantage is that their growth rate is so incredibly slow by comparison, that they don't drag the hoggs down as much.

As for getting more away by weaning than a Charollais, the only way you will do that is if you want to sell them 10kg lighter IME. If you've got a Charollais who's lambs massively outgrow a Beltex X, then I'd hang him up and get a decent one! As for not being fat at weaning, creep fed and out of mule hoggs, there is something very wrong going on. Trace elements?

Junior · Oct 25, 2023

neilo said:
A Beltex (a proper, small one, not a Texel x) has a low mature weight, closely corelated to a low birth weight. I used them on hoggs and the are generally small lambs born, which is key to an easy birth out of hoggs.

Their other advantage is that their growth rate is so incredibly slow by comparison, that they don't drag the hoggs down as much.

As for getting more away by weaning than a Charollais, the only way you will do that is if you want to sell them 10kg lighter IME. If you've got a Charollais who's lambs massively outgrow a Beltex X, then I'd hang him up and get a decent one! As for not being fat at weaning, creep fed and out of mule hoggs, there is something very wrong going on. Trace elements?

That’s exactly my thoughts with the beltex I’d have something saleable 6-8kg lighter
We only buy very strong tuppers
And aim to wean very early so they don’t pull their mother back to much for the following year
I would say that’s why we have more stores
IMO the turn around of the mother for the next year is more important

neilo · Oct 25, 2023

Junior said:
That’s exactly my thoughts with the beltex I’d have something saleable 6-8kg lighter
We only buy very strong tuppers
And aim to wean very early so they don’t pull their mother back to much for the following year
I would say that’s why we have more stores
IMO the turn around of the mother for the next year is more important

I agree. I breed Charollais, but have used a Beltex on hoggs until the last coupe of years, for that very reason.
However, I am happy to keep the lambs back until the next Spring, which is the only way they will get up to a decent weight IME. They really are shockingly slow growing, compared to any half decent Charollais, but you might get away with it a bit better if you are running big sheep like mules?

Aspiring Peasants · Oct 25, 2023

neilo said:
They really are shockingly slow growing, compared to any half decent Charollais,

Come on, they're not shockingly slow growing, especially as a terminal sire on maternal ewes. (Or if they are you need to be questioning the type you're buying) That's like saying the Charollais lambs born outside will all be dead after the first stormy day.

Aspiring Peasants · Oct 25, 2023

Just to go back to the OP, Beltex on ewe lambs will give you an easy lambing and lambs that will sell well as stores or fat. They will also not drag the hogg down as much (as has already been said). What part of the country are you in? There seems to be a lot of regional variation in what buyers prefer. Charollais in the North have fallen out of favour a lot, whereas Beltex has become much more popular

neilo · Oct 25, 2023

Aspiring Peasants said:
Come on, they're not shockingly slow growing, especially as a terminal sire on maternal ewes. (Or if they are you need to be questioning the type you're buying) That's like saying the Charollais lambs born outside will all be dead after the first stormy day.

When I had the pedigree Beltex, the very best ET lambs, single reared on maternal ewes, hit 30kg when the ET Charollais lambs were hitting 40kg. By the time those Beltex lambs hit 40kg, the same Charollais lambs were 55-60kg.
That is a shocking difference, whichever way you look at it, IMO.

Junior · Oct 25, 2023

Aspiring Peasants said:
Just to go back to the OP, Beltex on ewe lambs will give you an easy lambing and lambs that will sell well as stores or fat. They will also not drag the hogg down as much (as has already been said). What part of the country are you in? There seems to be a lot of regional variation in what buyers prefer. Charollais in the North have fallen out of favour a lot, whereas Beltex has become much more popular

Warwickshire

Aspiring Peasants · Oct 25, 2023

neilo said:
When I had the pedigree Beltex, the very best ET lambs, single reared on maternal ewes, hit 30kg when the ET Charollais lambs were hitting 40kg. By the time those Beltex lambs hit 40kg, the same Charollais lambs were 55-60kg.
That is a shocking difference, whichever way you look at it, IMO.

I was meaning more as a sire to put across ordinary ewes. I wouldn't expect there to be so much difference. I have Beltex tups as you know, but none are pedigree, just get them from commercial men who are consistently selling good quality fat lambs. The only exception is a neighbour who only has 50 ewes but isn't into all the showing apart from the village show. They aren't pedigree, but are consistently good and most sold by word of mouth. She started off with Charollais actually, but they went due to less demand for them.

If you buy short dumpy Beltex they never get big, 3/4 Beltex 1/4 Texel is about right IMO. (I'm very wary of pedigree sheep

)

P.S. A bit of Rouge in the mix looks to be useful as well

Aspiring Peasants · Oct 25, 2023

Junior said:
Warwickshire

Don't really know the trade down there, but it is probably worth while going to some sales to compare trade if you have not already done so.

MJT · Oct 25, 2023

If you’re using a beltex on ewe lambs hoping youl have beltex finished before Charolais then you’re p**sing in the wind . And in my opinion out of a mule you won’t have those shapey little lambs that will sell for a serious premium to make up for it either. But they’re perfect for lambing ewe lambs as previously stated by others they’re easy lambing, vigorous and don’t drag down the ewes as they’re not as fast growing as some. As for being “shockingly” slow growing, I’d disagree, I sold some mid April born beltex lambs out of ewe hoggs at over 40kg in September, granted they aren’t all up at those weights. But this idea that most of them need to see a birthday before they’re at 40kg is a load of rubbish.

neilo · Oct 25, 2023

Aspiring Peasants said:
I was meaning more as a sire to put across ordinary ewes. I wouldn't expect there to be so much difference. I have Beltex tups as you know, but none are pedigree, just get them from commercial men who are consistently selling good quality fat lambs. The only exception is a neighbour who only has 50 ewes but isn't into all the showing apart from the village show. They aren't pedigree, but are consistently good and most sold by word of mouth. She started off with Charollais actually, but they went due to less demand for them.

If you buy short dumpy Beltex they never get big, 3/4 Beltex 1/4 Texel is about right IMO. (I'm very wary of pedigree sheep )

P.S. A bit of Rouge in the mix looks to be useful as well

So you're not running Beltex, to say they aren't slow growing then, but crossbreds?

I did say the OP might get away with it using them over big mature weight sheep like mules, but I prefer to run a more economically sized ewe here. Beltex crosses need to see a birthday to get much over 40kg here, but they do make good hoggets if you can wait that long.

Of course, that slow growth can be a god thing on hoggs, as mentioned above, as they don't drag their mothers down as much.

Aspiring Peasants · Oct 25, 2023

neilo said:
So you're not running Beltex, to say they aren't slow growing then, but crossbreds?

I did say the OP might get away with it using them over big mature weight sheep like mules, but I prefer to run a more economically sized ewe here. Beltex crosses need to see a birthday to get much over 40kg here, but they do make good hoggets if you can wait that long.

Of course, that slow growth can be a god thing on hoggs, as mentioned above, as they don't drag their mothers down as much.

I just want commercial good sheep that will get the Beltex premium. If there's a bit of Dutch, or any thing else in them I'm not bothered as long as the lambs look the job. I've had over a quarter of ours away this year off grass averaging over 40Kgs, you're doing something wrong if you can't do that where you are. Having said that they are good to run round and sell around birthday time, had them up to £172 last June and they were a lot more than 40kgs!

tr250 · Oct 25, 2023

We put texels on our mules and charalais on the texelxmule and don’t get too much trouble lambing. Only trouble is we do get the odd few fat lambs in July when the price tends to be lower we sell a few then before weaning but then usually wean and leave them alone over harvest we are fattening them on forage rape now. I don’t think a beltex will get big very quick so I’d say you’ll have some ready for the Xmas fatstock shows

Beltex on NCM ewe lambs

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