A Land Rover for the Farmer

[Smiffy101]

God you do talk some dung, you realise you don't have to believe everything you think.

We have a 20 year old Isuzu trooper here thats going nicely. There's lots of old landcruisers and hiluxs around here as well.

Drive 200 miles in defender and you'll be deaf and crippled

I dont think the old ones count but the ones coming out the factory now are cheap tat the latest trucks panels all flex if u lean on them
I have a 13 year old ranger and it has lest rust than some 3 year old ones
But the last defenders where just as bad and tacky and electrical

And its the way it will stay the engineers frerly admit the vehicles have a design life of there waranty after that the only place any manafacture wants a vehicle is the scrap yard
And this is so of jlr aswell

 

[deleted user 837354]

Lol.

Find me another car that I could buy new drive daily and double my money on in 12 months if I chose to sell ?

They are far from disposable - there is no other car with such a big % if it's production still running today

They are outdated though - that's why they stopped making them and I've never suggested any different

They are not as good as more modern alternatives in almost every respect and I've never suggested otherwise

Land Rover do make the best 4x4 SUV n the world though - I have one, a my17 v8 vouge that does everything the defender falls short on WAY better than anything from Japan

LOL, your MY17 Vogue is also about 3-4 times the price of a Jap pickup, so you would hope it did something better.

They are disposable- they are not made from adamantium as far as I am aware and still rust and die like anything else. As you know the build quality of them was variable to say the very least.

It is not the best 4x4 in the world. How the heck do you think anyone else in the world does anything off road??

You are aware that Porsche, Ford, Nissan and Toyota etc do similar things with their vehicles as LR do with their famous expeditions? There is no British monopoly on the ability to design a system that makes 4 wheels turn at the same rate.

 

[nails]

nd I drive a lot more than 20 miles daily in a defender in what I suspect is a lot more comfort than a 20 yr old trooper
I am afraid you are completely wrong on that point A 20 year old trooper would be a far more comfortable long drive than a Defender and tows better.I say that from experience having hauled bulls in a Defender with an Ifor Williams trailer to Perth and a trooper. Took me a day to recover after driving the Defender.

 

[Clive]

LOL, your MY17 Vogue is also about 3-4 times the price of a Jap pickup, so you would hope it did something better.

They are disposable- they are not made from adamantium as far as I am aware and still rust and die like anything else. As you know the build quality of them was variable to say the very least.

It is not the best 4x4 in the world. How the heck do you think anyone else in the world does anything off road??

You are aware that Porsche, Ford, Nissan and Toyota etc do similar things with their vehicles as LR do with their famous expeditions? There is no British monopoly on the ability to design a system that makes 4 wheels turn at the same rate.

Have you owned or driven a vouge ? Or a Porsche 4x4

I have had several and other brands so am well placed to comment when I say nothing gets close to the vouge as a SUV - it's only downside is it's price tag

And I'm not talking about crossing deserts as frankly like 99.9% of owners of such cars I have absolutely no deserts or jungles to cross !

In terms of off road ability we run a Navara as well on the farm and my Defender would get far further off road than it could. Will be interested to see how dads new Amorak goes but it looks soft to me in the off road department with lots of fancy body work that would soon get damaged if things got serious and tyres better suited to the m6 than a mountain side

Of course land rovers die - but usually at much older age than many others, you can't arguee with stats. Cost of ownership has always been hard to beat even when alternatives have been cheaper to buy. Previous defenders we have owned never lost much or cost much to run and that was before they got trendy with townies

They are outdated so due a big update which we are going to see soon from JLR and now it seems these grenadier guys if they can get it together

Ps - our navara is on its 3rd engine, 2nd gear box and 2nd clutch - it's a nail of a thing to drive and amazes me every time it passes a MOT, it desperately needs new suspension as it handles like a supermarket trolley - all in 100k miles

 

[deleted user 837354]

Have you owned or driven a vouge ? Or a Porsche 4x4

I have had several and other brands so am well placed to comment when I say nothing gets close to the vouge as a SUV - it's only downside is it's price tag

And I'm not talking about crossing deserts as frankly like 99.9% of owners of such cars I have absolutely no deserts or jungles to cross !

In terms of off road ability we run a Navara as well on the farm and my Defender would get far further off road than it could. Will be interested to see how dads new Amorak goes but it looks soft to me in the off road department with lots of fancy body work that would soon get damaged if things got serious and tyres better suited to the m6 than a mountain side

Of course land rovers die - but usually at much older age than many others, you can't arguee with stats. Cost of ownership has always been hard to beat even when alternatives have been cheaper to buy. Previous defenders we have owned never lost much or cost much to run and that was before they got trendy with townies

They are outdated so due a big update which we are going to see soon from JLR and now it seems these grenadier guys if they can get it together

Ps - our navara is on its 3rd engine, 2nd gear box and 2nd clutch - it's a nail of a thing to drive and amazes me every time it passes a MOT, it desperately needs new suspension as it handles like a supermarket trolley - all in 100k miles

I have driven a heap of Vogues and other big tag cars that only you could name. I am well aware of the cost and quality of them. They are fine cars. I am not disputing that.

However, the Defender is not the only car that can off-road. It is a myth. How the heck do you think Americans get on with anything considering that the Defender is virtually unheard over there, and yet the place is crammed with RAMs and F150s all being used by ranchers, farmers and utility contractors in places a hundred miles from the nearest road?

The cost of ownership between Defenders and Jap cars, are you joking? When you have attempted to run a fleet of 20 4x4s, come back and tell me. You can buy a Navara for less than 20K, drive it for 3 years or 90,000 miles, under warranty, sell it and get 10K. A Defender will cost over 30K, might get you slightly more than 15K when it is traded in, now add in reliability and the cost of dealer servicing? You must be mad.

A peculiar British company does not have the monopoly on 4 wheel drive systems. Other companies have all the same toys and will get the exact same places if the right tyres are involved.

 

[Clive]

Very few people need to use a fraction of what these cars are capable of off road regardless of brand - on cars used on the road they are all compromised by tyres

It's really fairly irrelevant and not the main reason they are bought

 

[Paul E]

We've a defender, and it's OK for dodging about, and towing, but a twot for going over 20 miles in, and sh1te on land unless it's bone dry - when has it been that in the last 10 years??!
Used to have a Subaru pick up and it'd go nearly anywhere, and not make a mess as it was light. Crap for towing mind, but at least you could actually chuck a calf, or some sheep in the back, unlike LR, without giving yourself a hernia, or getting their legs stuck in that effing stupid hole in the rear cross member.

 

[Frank-the-Wool]

Having run Land Rovers since 1950 and still having 5 Defender 90's at the moment as well as an Isuzu pick up, I feel I can make a few observations on Land Rover.

There is no doubt where we are using vehicles off road more than 50% of their running time and also towing fully loaded at 3.5 Tonne then the Defender is still a great workhorse.

However reliability has gone down with the increase in electrics and the changes to the Ford engine. In all the Land Rovers we have had we had never blown an engine until the last two years when we have had two the 2.4 litre engines go. Land Rover were fair and replaced both engines even though they were out of warranty.

The best models were the 300 series and in other parts of the world many of these are still running with over 300K on the clock. You could still buy the engines.
I agree they are not very comfortable for long distance motoring and I tend to use the Isuzu for long distance work. However the trouble with the Isuzu is that if you do not replace it before the warranty runs out they can be very expensive in repairs.

The good old Defender is cheap to repair (providing you do not go to a main agent!) and the other massive plus is the low depreciation. Defender 90 hard tops were still less than £20K ex Vat at the end of production. Five years and 100k miles and they can still be sold for over 10k.
An Isuzu at £24k kept for 5 years will only by around £7k.

 

[Bertram]

Gents. It's very simple. People drive a defender because they like them. Other people don't drive a defender, because they don't like them. That's it.

It really is.


Now go and fret about something important.

 

[JeepJeep]

I'm sure I read earlier that the engines would be 3.0d , electric and a 4.0 petrol for the US market..

VM or Merc maybe for the Diesels?

 

[Drillman]

The double cab pickups try to be everything to everybody and end up being nothing to nobody.
Clumsy to drive with awful turning circle, I happily take my Defender 90 into town but such journeys would be pain in a double cab PU.

Our double cab actually has a very good turning circle. far better than the disco 2 it effectively replaced. It's almost as comfortable, far more powerful and is also a far better tow vehicle than any defender i've ever driven.

 

[Drillman]

Anyway what's happening about this new defender that JLR are supposed to be making?

I assume they aren't going to bother and have quietly let the whole idea be binned.

 

[deleted user 837354]

You can buy a Nissan for 20K.

You can drive it all you like, for 3 years, under warranty. If it explodes, dies, breaks down, fine, it isn't going to be pressing on your chequebook either way.

You can keep it tidy, maintain and service it, and then auction it at the end of the warranty period, and get 10K.

That's cheap motoring.

 

[Farmer Roy]

FFS there are some soft cock pansies here whinging about noise & comfort & long distance driving

Modern double cab Utes ( f u ck I hate the term pickup, it sounds so lame ) are VERY good road vehicles I will admit. But that's all they are. Glorified cars. But as for serious heavy duty, or off road, or continuous long distance use on corrugated potholed gravel roads - nah, sorry.

I will put MY tin hat on now @Clive, but I seriously doubt many of you really need anything more than a glorified car with good towing ability, very different situation to our kind of needs / useage

As for pure off road use, yeah, they still not as good in hardcore conditions as Landcruiser / Patrol / Defender style vehicles. As for the yank tank F150 / Dodge Ram etc - yeah, they certainly have their applications, but for serious off roading ( or extreme farm use ) at times they are just TOO heavy, TOO wide & TOO long. Approach angles & ground clearance are the important issues

 

[CornishTone]

FFS there are some soft cock pansies here whinging about noise & comfort & long distance driving

Modern double cab Utes ( f u ck I hate the term pickup, it sounds so lame ) are VERY good road vehicles I will admit. But that's all they are. Glorified cars. But as for serious heavy duty, or off road, or continuous long distance use on corrugated potholed gravel roads - nah, sorry.

I will put MY tin hat on now @Clive, but I seriously doubt many of you really need anything more than a glorified car with good towing ability, very different situation to our kind of needs / useage

As for pure off road use, yeah, they still not as good in hardcore conditions as Landcruiser / Patrol / Defender style vehicles. As for the yank tank F150 / Dodge Ram etc - yeah, they certainly have their applications, but for serious off roading ( or extreme farm use ) at times they are just TOO heavy, TOO wide & TOO long. Approach angles & ground clearance are the important issues

You do realise this is a British forum don't you?

Land Cruiser utes are outlawed in the U.K., Land Rovers are just getting too expensive to buy (second hand) and they have no idea what "corugations" are! They don't need to go long distance off road because they have roads to go on. As long as it keeps them dry and can tow a stock trailer into a field and out again it serves its purpose.

If someone can make a Land Rover substitute at a sensible cost to compete against the Jap trucks then great, but for those of us who love being crammed into our old Series Land Rover, which is an assault on the senses the moment you turn the key, it will never quite be the same! I miss my Land Rover![emoji20]

 

[Kiwi Pete]

FFS there are some soft cock pansies here whinging about noise & comfort & long distance driving

Modern double cab Utes ( f u ck I hate the term pickup, it sounds so lame ) are VERY good road vehicles I will admit. But that's all they are. Glorified cars. But as for serious heavy duty, or off road, or continuous long distance use on corrugated potholed gravel roads - nah, sorry.

I will put MY tin hat on now @Clive, but I seriously doubt many of you really need anything more than a glorified car with good towing ability, very different situation to our kind of needs / useage

As for pure off road use, yeah, they still not as good in hardcore conditions as Landcruiser / Patrol / Defender style vehicles. As for the yank tank F150 / Dodge Ram etc - yeah, they certainly have their applications, but for serious off roading ( or extreme farm use ) at times they are just TOO heavy, TOO wide & TOO long. Approach angles & ground clearance are the important issues

Everything is a trade-off
Hard to achieve quiet on road with serious tyres
Hard to get decent ride comfort with a beam axle
Hard to build an independent set-up that doesn't shed wheels under our type of conditions, without huge unsprung weight..
"Southern hemisphere style" farm ute is a very small market sector - even the hilux is basically a road vehicle now

 

[CornishTone]

Everything is a trade-off
Hard to achieve quiet on road with serious tyres
Hard to get decent ride comfort with a beam axle
Hard to build an independent set-up that doesn't shed wheels under our type of conditions, without huge unsprung weight..
"Southern hemisphere style" farm ute is a very small market sector - even the hilux is basically a road vehicle now

If you could get a tray top Land Cruiser into the UK it would solve the "Land Rover Paradox" I reckon. Tow anything, go anywhere, put stuff in the back, looks good covered in sh1t! What more could you want?

Perhaps Brexit will mean the rules will change to allow it?!

 

[Kiwi Pete]

If you could get a tray top Land Cruiser into the UK it would solve the "Land Rover Paradox" I reckon. Tow anything, go anywhere, put stuff in the back, looks good covered in sh1t! What more could you want?

Perhaps Brexit will mean the rules will change to allow it?!

We used to tow a McHale fusion around on a dolly behind the 'cruiser, still had enough poke to pass a bus in 4th...
Not bad for a dirty old diesel
Part of me wishes I'd kept it but glad of a better road vehicle really, now I don't need to tow machinery around, was a very substantial vehicle though. It's now usually seen with a rootrake or bucket holding the back down, my local fire chief owns it.

 

[FonterraFarmer]

You do realise this is a British forum don't you?

Land Cruiser utes are outlawed in the U.K., Land Rovers are just getting too expensive to buy (second hand) and they have no idea what "corugations" are! They don't need to go long distance off road because they have roads to go on. As long as it keeps them dry and can tow a stock trailer into a field and out again it serves its purpose.

If someone can make a Land Rover substitute at a sensible cost to compete against the Jap trucks then great, but for those of us who love being crammed into our old Series Land Rover, which is an assault on the senses the moment you turn the key, it will never quite be the same! I miss my Land Rover![emoji20]

British forum......that's half the reason we come here, to provide a constant reminder how the rest of the world does things

 

[D14]

There's no market for this though. LR enthusiasts will only have the real thing. This isn't a LR.

Farmers who buy it have a real one at the minute so might look at this when it's time to change but how many is that per year realistically?