AB15 2 year legume fallow

[Fat hen]

Would Kyleo been a better bet on the clover do you think in hindsight, or do you feel that you can knock it back with the cereal herbicides as and when...?

We didnt want to kill the clover immediately, thought itd help the crop. So will spray it later. It gets big in June onwards.

Kyleo yes to kill the whole lot. 3 yrs ago we took a different (worse) approach. Sprayed it in Aug when it was 2ft high, twice with Kyleo. Flatlift then drilled late Oct. Sticky and cold. Result was a disappointing WW crop which got hammered by crows. So poor in fact that I was thinking it should be a Spring crop post-Ab15.

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

Would Kyleo been a better bet on the clover do you think in hindsight, or do you feel that you can knock it back with the cereal herbicides as and when...?

Clover is pretty dormant over winter and it should carry on rooting and fixing a bit of n. You can either kill it or check it in the spring/ summer and in theory it should give up some of its n then.

 

[steveR]

We didnt want to kill the clover immediately, thought itd help the crop. So will spray it later. It gets big in June onwards.

Kyleo yes to kill the whole lot. 3 yrs ago we took a different (worse) approach. Sprayed it in Aug when it was 2ft high, twice with Kyleo. Flatlift then drilled late Oct. Sticky and cold. Result was a disappointing WW crop which got hammered by crows. So poor in fact that I was thinking it should be a Spring crop post-Ab15.

Too long a gap between spraying off and drilling, and lost the ability of a growing crop to look after the soil a bit to make it easier to work later?

 

[Fat hen]

Clover is pretty dormant over winter and it should carry on rooting and fixing a bit of n. You can either kill it or check it in the spring/ summer and in theory it should give up some of its n then.

So if checked with spray at the right time it could I guess last through the harvest??

 

[Fat hen]

Too long a gap between spraying off and drilling, and lost the ability of a growing crop to look after the soil a bit to make it easier to work later?

Yep sounds about right. Started to go mushy on the surface. Also the flatlift made gouges in areas so really didnt help matters. This time round much better. in fact I think I would wait post-drilling to kill the grass

 

[steveR]

Yep sounds about right. Started to go mushy on the surface. Also the flatlift made gouges in areas so really didnt help matters. This time round much better. in fact I think I would wait post-drilling to kill the grass

What can be seen in your pics above, is very impressive work.

So if checked with spray at the right time it could I guess last through the harvest??

I have some ground creeping clover that appeared on some sand land about 3 years ago, no idea where from either. Laughs at Glyphosate... I banged Kyleo on some and back it came...

However, I am wondering how it will get on when overseeded next Spring with Bumblebird mix and a Herbal ley mix!! I'll kiss it with 3l of 360, and direct drill in. I don't think I'd dare go after, as the drilling is very shallow and might be a bit of seed on top, unlike drilling cereals.

 

[Fat hen]

What can be seen in your pics above, is very impressive work.


I have some ground creeping clover that appeared on some sand land about 3 years ago, no idea where from either. Laughs at Glyphosate... I banged Kyleo on some and back it came...

However, I am wondering how it will get on when overseeded next Spring with Bumblebird mix and a Herbal ley mix!! I'll kiss it with 3l of 360, and direct drill in. I don't think I'd dare go after, as the drilling is very shallow and might be a bit of seed on top, unlike drilling cereals.

Well if I'd tried to flatlift post-AB15 this year I am sure it would not be looking as happy as the photos. Its nice when doing LESS is the right decision!

I've had small white clover in AB9 Birdfood. Same area every year. Its damn persistent and smothers out the Oil Radish etc. Perhaps a shallow 1" disks might help to establish the grass seed in the ley, might delay the onset of the clover too?
When establishing the AB15 I gave it a 1" shortdisking to chip it up/level up after flatlift and prior to drilling then roll, seemd to help. I'll be doing it all again in Autumn, sh!t loads of it this time!

 

[steveR]

Well if I'd tried to flatlift post-AB15 this year I am sure it would not be looking as happy as the photos. Its nice when doing LESS is the right decision!

I've had small white clover in AB9 Birdfood. Same area every year. Its damn persistent and smothers out the Oil Radish etc. Perhaps a shallow 1" disks might help to establish the grass seed in the ley, might delay the onset of the clover too?
When establishing the AB15 I gave it a 1" shortdisking to chip it up/level up after flatlift and prior to drilling then roll, seemd to help. I'll be doing it all again in Autumn, sh!t loads of it this time!

I have found with the herbal ley this time, the recommended method (thanks TFF inmates!) is two passes with with Aitchison tines, which seems to produce a small amount of tilth to around 1"

 

[Fat hen]

Anyone know the Kg/ha of N contributed by attributed to AB15 or other clover ley? For NMax and for actual N application in WW?? Must be something at least

 

[teslacoils]

Anyone know the Kg/ha of N contributed by attributed to AB15 or other clover ley? For NMax and for actual N application in WW?? Must be something at least

I'll check my soil tests, but tbh a better guide for nmax would be a soil n test in early Feb.

 

[Brisel]

Anyone know the Kg/ha of N contributed by attributed to AB15 or other clover ley? For NMax and for actual N application in WW?? Must be something at least

It has got to be worth another SNS index point - read RB209

 

[R J]

Would it be a idea to use a front mounted topper on this option as not to potentially roll down blackgrass heads in front of the topper ?
Thanks

 

[Brisel]

Definitely worth looking into. We use a front mounted flail topper. Don't forget about the skids at the side too that can run plants over rather than cut them.

 

[Grass And Grain]

Would it be a idea to use a front mounted topper on this option as not to potentially roll down blackgrass heads in front of the topper ?
Thanks

Or a verge mower (hydraulically moves out to the side). Maybe more common to get hold of or a contractor with one.

 

[Fat hen]

Or a verge mower (hydraulically moves out to the side). Maybe more common to get hold of or a contractor with one.

Verge mower does the job. In 5 yrs not had a problem with BG getting missed. Its worth taking out any Tramline/ruts as BG might get missed in these undulations

 

[yellow belly]

Would it be a idea to use a front mounted topper on this option as not to potentially roll down blackgrass heads in front of the topper ?
Thanks

i use a front mounted topper a a rear mounted z topper

the front mounted on bg when the heads are flowering is very effective do it too early before flowering and a new head is pushed up quickley
but wait till it is flowering
bg takes a couple of weeks after fertilisation for seeds to be viable
in osr cutting the patches at the right stage the desicating as normal is as near to 100% controll as can be had

the same timeing with stewardship options but cutting a second time
you can test the seed for viability with a thumb nail
spot spraying with roundup on individual black grass plants if also effective in wheat crops (if it was legal a drone sprayer could be very good )

 

[snarling bee]

My neighbour GD straight into AB15 residue. I'm sure its supposed to be WW, and he's drilled it twice. Just too wet on shitty clay.

 

[teslacoils]

Drilled twice? Failed and redrilled, or drilled crossover at half rate? Mines looking ok. Bit of ryegrass to spray out, and a bit hungry looking.

 

[Fat hen]

View attachment 931876

My neighbour GD straight into AB15 residue. I'm sure its supposed to be WW, and he's drilled it twice. Just too wet on shitty clay.

Was it put in late? Disappointing.
There's been a lot of rain sitting in the slot I imagine thats whats happened here.
Mine was in late Sept looks well established now. Grass roots still handling the water well.
I've got that on DD Wheat into stubbles. Despite a high seed rate.

 

[Against_the_grain]

Can someone quickly clarify something for me before I let my thoughts develop any more.
I really like the idea of putting a large chunk of the farm into AB15.
Just to clarify though.
On 100Ha can I;
2021 AB15 on the whole 100Ha
2022 AB15 on the whole 100Ha
2023 WW on the whole 100Ha (no other AB15 anywhere)
2024 AB15 on the whole 100Ha
2025 AB15 on the whole 100Ha

If so then i am receiving £522/ha x 5 = £2610/Ha over 5 years and I can grow a WW with a margin of £700/Ha (or whatever) as well in year 3?