AHL2

[Mr Onions]

After a meeting with an advisor it reads as though you could establish AHL2 winter bird feed after harvest, it then has to be in place for the winter months, nov, dec, jan and feb. After this could you then follow with a spring crop? If you were to do this and add the no insecticide payment you would net nearly £900/ha. Allowing a seed and establishment cost of £100/ha thats £800/ha and thats before you get an income off a spring crop. This could be bending the rules too much but the guidance is vague, does anyone else read it like this? If I can do it our farm will be 50% ALH2.

 

[Zippy768]

After a meeting with an advisor it reads as though you could establish AHL2 winter bird feed after harvest, it then has to be in place for the winter months, nov, dec, jan and feb. After this could you then follow with a spring crop? If you were to do this and add the no insecticide payment you would net nearly £900/ha. Allowing a seed and establishment cost of £100/ha thats £800/ha and thats before you get an income off a spring crop. This could be bending the rules too much but the guidance is vague, does anyone else read it like this? If I can do it our farm will be 50% ALH2.

There is a very very active, informative and interesting thread running on this here.
Well worth a read through.

 

[Luke Cropwalker]

After a meeting with an advisor it reads as though you could establish AHL2 winter bird feed after harvest, it then has to be in place for the winter months, nov, dec, jan and feb. After this could you then follow with a spring crop? If you were to do this and add the no insecticide payment you would net nearly £900/ha. Allowing a seed and establishment cost of £100/ha thats £800/ha and thats before you get an income off a spring crop. This could be bending the rules too much but the guidance is vague, does anyone else read it like this? If I can do it our farm will be 50% ALH2.

Just ask yourself what mix you would sow after harvest to get seeds set in time for winter. A lot will depend whereabouts you farm, what would happen if you hit a dry spell after harvest which delayed establishment? It all depends on your attitude to risk.

 

[Andy26]

Just ask yourself what mix you would sow after harvest to get seeds set in time for winter. A lot will depend whereabouts you farm, what would happen if you hit a dry spell after harvest which delayed establishment? It all depends on your attitude to risk.

I think to have six different crops providing small seeds through winter, you would need to establish the AHL2 by end of June very latest.

It's theoretically possible, but imo is stretching the interpretation to far.

 

[4course]

I think to have six different crops providing small seeds through winter, you would need to establish the AHL2 by end of June very latest.

It's theoretically possible, but imo is stretching the interpretation to far.

I cant see us getting a mixture of 6 different seeds to set seed if sown after wb .

After a meeting with an advisor it reads as though you could establish AHL2 winter bird feed after harvest, it then has to be in place for the winter months, nov, dec, jan and feb. After this could you then follow with a spring crop? If you were to do this and add the no insecticide payment you would net nearly £900/ha. Allowing a seed and establishment cost of £100/ha thats £800/ha and thats before you get an income off a spring crop. This could be bending the rules too much but the guidance is vague, does anyone else read it like this? If I can do it our farm will be 50% ALH2.

There is much talk of this being possible but as a poor land /awkward corners ,field edge strips is probably as good as it gets, however .my concerns are as to a whole field situation is getting it sown early enough to germinate, grow, flower and set seed in the time between clearing the wb and the late autumn . from my latitude roughly level with scotch corner its unlikely to guarantee most years us to be finished wb in july in most years or at least the 4th week . having looked into the cost of seed seems most proprietary sources are working out around £140-150/ha and thats without any establishment costs plus all the seed houses in their growing guidelines say should be established in the spring between april and june !!. Then there are the defra guidlines to follow which whilst not set in stone are what any inspector in years to follow will look to see if they have been followed in the event of a failure, these include apply fertilizer,control pests and control weeds and yet nobody seems to be taking much notice of these little nuggets tucked away in the defra blurb !!.
Along with this is the effect on the farm business of covering the fixed costs within the business as should folk go down the route of sowing 1/3 1/2 etc of their land are you going to reduce labour, machinery, management costs etc proprtionately to ensure the remaining conventionally farmed fields arnt effectively facing an increase in %costs mindst I suppose we could sell or downsize the combine /machinery fleet and farm vehicles to solve this connundrum and thats without taking into account the cost of any rent,personal drawings finance etc .
That said the above problems are not insurmountable on a short term what is one of my biggest concerns is god forbid if our efforts to increase wildlife results in some rare newt butterfly nesting bird takes up residence and after 3 years your or your landlords land suddenly becomes a ssi and your or their net worth collapses .,plus what about considering any long term future consequences of such action on the future of the business in terms of inheritance or continuity .

 

[ploughman1963]

After a meeting with an advisor it reads as though you could establish AHL2 winter bird feed after harvest, it then has to be in place for the winter months, nov, dec, jan and feb. After this could you then follow with a spring crop? If you were to do this and add the no insecticide payment you would net nearly £900/ha. Allowing a seed and establishment cost of £100/ha thats £800/ha and thats before you get an income off a spring crop. This could be bending the rules too much but the guidance is vague, does anyone else read it like this? If I can do it our farm will be 50% ALH2.

Doesnt the 'no insecticide' payment have to be for the whole year on that parcel not just the time AHL2 is in?

 

[gone up the hill]

I cant see us getting a mixture of 6 different seeds to set seed if sown after wb .

There is much talk of this being possible but as a poor land /awkward corners ,field edge strips is probably as good as it gets, however .my concerns are as to a whole field situation is getting it sown early enough to germinate, grow, flower and set seed in the time between clearing the wb and the late autumn . from my latitude roughly level with scotch corner its unlikely to guarantee most years us to be finished wb in july in most years or at least the 4th week . having looked into the cost of seed seems most proprietary sources are working out around £140-150/ha and thats without any establishment costs plus all the seed houses in their growing guidelines say should be established in the spring between april and june !!. Then there are the defra guidlines to follow which whilst not set in stone are what any inspector in years to follow will look to see if they have been followed in the event of a failure, these include apply fertilizer,control pests and control weeds and yet nobody seems to be taking much notice of these little nuggets tucked away in the defra blurb !!.
Along with this is the effect on the farm business of covering the fixed costs within the business as should folk go down the route of sowing 1/3 1/2 etc of their land are you going to reduce labour, machinery, management costs etc proprtionately to ensure the remaining conventionally farmed fields arnt effectively facing an increase in %costs mindst I suppose we could sell or downsize the combine /machinery fleet and farm vehicles to solve this connundrum and thats without taking into account the cost of any rent,personal drawings finance etc .
That said the above problems are not insurmountable on a short term what is one of my biggest concerns is god forbid if our efforts to increase wildlife results in some rare newt butterfly nesting bird takes up residence and after 3 years your or your landlords land suddenly becomes a ssi and your or their net worth collapses .,plus what about considering any long term future consequences of such action on the future of the business in terms of inheritance or continuity .

So what happen then if it rains non stop from March 31st to July the 1st and farms cannot drill the crop in that window above and then get inspected??

According to your take on events they will fail the inspection.

So that makes the option too risky for anyone to go for regardless of system!

I agree about costs being a concern, especially with the way they are handling CS claims with about 40% still unpaid nearly two months after the payment window opened!

I think if you are going to drill it after a winter crop of grain then that grain needs to be either whole cropped or crimped to get it off at the latest end of June/ Early July as if you cut it dry and the weather is against you then it many not get cut untill August which would be too late imo.

 

[4course]

guth, hi .in response to your first line re rain stopping play thats as I see it not your fault therefore would be not a problem not following guidelines or making an effort to fulfill is . cheers

 

[Adeptandy]

How about broadcast the mix in a standing W Barley crop then chop the straw at harvest

 

[Zippy768]

Doesnt the 'no insecticide' payment have to be for the whole year on that parcel not just the time AHL2 is in?

Which is why start date is important. Scheme year from March to March. Won't need any insecticide on wb in spring

 

[gone up the hill]

How about broadcast the mix in a standing W Barley crop then chop the straw at harvest

What at £140 a ton delivered in for straw?

You cant chop it when its worth that much!

 

[Zippy768]

How about broadcast the mix in a standing W Barley crop then chop the straw at harvest

I suggested that in the other thread. It was roundly poo pood.
Throwing small seeds would be a Ln issue as would moisture

 

[gone up the hill]

guth, hi .in response to your first line re rain stopping play thats as I see it not your fault therefore would be not a problem not following guidelines or making an effort to fulfill is . cheers

Maybe but there is no date set in stone when it actually has to be drilled so if you do not drill untill say the 10th of July and then get inspected there is not much they can do about it.

 

[alomy75]

What at £140 a ton delivered in for straw?

You cant chop it when its worth that much!

Course you can. I would never have balers back here making a mess no matter what the price is.

 

[4course]

Maybe but there is no date set in stone when it actually has to be drilled so if you do not drill untill say the 10th of July and then get inspected there is not much they can do about it.

yes but a scenario that could well happen is combine harvest of the wb in july or later would mean that any sowings would be outside the seed houses recommendation thus you would have not followed best practice or made a sensible effort to establish though can see it working if the crop is ensiled earlier its just Icant see in most years getting a harvested crop off and resown in time to set seed .. Here in the days when we put in catch crops ( which worked from an agronomy view)) post combine harvest cant recall a single year when any type crop set seed though it oft flowered in time to carry over into the winter. I think we agree just coming at it from a different angle

Ive come to the view that those agents recommending this ahl2 following wb harvest( certainly up here) are in the camp of that old saying those that can do those that cant teach. but each to their own

 

[Adeptandy]

I suggested that in the other thread. It was roundly poo pood.
Throwing small seeds would be a Ln issue as would moisture

How about out of an Avadex type machine that does 24m

 

[Adeptandy]

What at £140 a ton delivered in for straw?

You cant chop it when its worth that much!

Not around here it’s not, £17/heston size bale isn’t worth the hassle I’m finding

 

[4course]

How about out of an Avadex type machine that does 24m

why not try it on an area this year and see if it works on your patch we are doing that with a couple of the options that we think will/or may fit our circumstances, if it does or doesnt at least we will know and whats more have proof it will or wont,

 

[gone up the hill]

yes but a scenario that could well happen is combine harvest of the wb in july or later would mean that any sowings would be outside the seed houses recommendation thus you would have not followed best practice or made a sensible effort to establish though can see it working if the crop is ensiled earlier its just Icant see in most years getting a harvested crop off and resown in time to set seed .. Here in the days when we put in catch crops ( which worked from an agronomy view)) post combine harvest cant recall a single year when any type crop set seed though it oft flowered in time to carry over into the winter. I think we agree just coming at it from a different angle

Ive come to the view that those agents recommending this ahl2 following wb harvest( certainly up here) are in the camp of that old saying those that can do those that cant teach. but each to their own

Yes i certainly think you would need to either crimp or whole crop the winter barley, also would need to push it on growing early etc by getting the first fert on around the middle of Feb at the latest etc.

Problem with just putting it into the bird seed crop option for the year is when will Defra pay you as currently with the CS payments they are in no hurry to pay farmers and that is after two months of the payment window being open so i can see this idea of every 3 month's SFI payment being unworkable for the RPA when most farmers are in the SFI scheme in one or two years time!

 

[alomy75]

Yes i certainly think you would need to either crimp or whole crop the winter barley, also would need to push it on growing early etc by getting the first fert on around the middle of Feb at the latest etc.

Problem with just putting it into the bird seed crop option for the year is when will Defra pay you as currently with the CS payments they are in no hurry to pay farmers and that is after two months of the payment window being open so i can see this idea of every 3 month's SFI payment being unworkable for the RPA when most farmers are in the SFI scheme in one or two years time!

I’m in the sfi pilot and to be fair the payments are bang on time. Even if they’re a bit late for the first quarter; I’m sure once they get the direct debit (!) set up it will just pay out on time thereafter