Another walker trampled

[Ffermer Bach]

Given that the problem facing the UK is obesity, not starvation, I'm not sure why you think food production should be the top priority for the countryside.

But if that is to be the top priority then we should be aiming for far fewer, far larger farms, full on industrial farming, feed lots etc with cattle kept indoors and land put over to production of silage and fodder crops.

That would produce more food, and would allow people to walk footpaths free from the risk of encountering cattle.

It would also mean far fewer farmers of course, but needs must, if food production is to be the top priority.

If we want to protect our soil, I think we need more pasture fed meat, and to bring animals (as well as cover cropping) back to the arable areas.

Just as in peace times everyone wonders why we spend money on defence when it could be put to better use in the NHS, so in times of plenty (world market from abroad ~ presuming we have the money to buy it) people wonder why we bother with British farming, but maybe not looking in the short term, in the long view I believe it is important to keep a home grown food production capacity going, not just important but vital.

Also, as Robin Page has said, we in the country side are a discriminated against minority, it's just that we have the same skin colour as the majority who live in the cities.

 

[dannewhouse]

9 fields here, 6 have footpaths in 4 are in a line so its the same footpath through the middle of them and there only 4 acre pieces so not practical to divide up any other way. 1 herd pretty much stays in these 4 fields so that path would have to be closed while my cattle were out as it isn't possible to reroute the path other than roads (not too far out of the way tbh)

the other 5 are grazed in rotation and the 2 with footpaths could both be closed, again 1 could be rerouted around a road but the other there's no real re route applicable.

I have no problems at all with my sucklers and me and tbh most dog walkers avoid the 4 field footpath and aren't keen on the other 2 when cattle are in them but I cant do anything about it.

you cant win the chap who put palisade fencing both sides of a footpath they weren't happy!!!

 

[Lincoln75]

If you have stock in the field, even cows with young calves, but you have no knowledge that one is wild or temperamental , then im fairly sure legally the courts cant generally hold you accountable? I appreciate not as black and white as that, but if you are not a complete fool and don't knowingly put unsafe stock in a field with public access...

So when did you dream that up? you are always responsible for your own actions and your own livestock.

 

[dannewhouse]

how do you go on if the stock are provoked?
I wonder if it has ever occurred with a dog when someone torments and annoys it until it bites them?

 

[SLA]

I’m sure in the future someone will consider comparing the decline of “ farmland” species with the increase in access, disturbance must be a big influence in breeding success of a lot of species.

 

[dannewhouse]

hares and deer are noticeable never mind proper surveys etc.

whether that's direct disturbance or shooting ie if the public don't know they're there they don't shoot them?

 

[Fallowfield]

Also, as Robin Page has said, we in the country side are a discriminated against minority, it's just that we have the same skin colour as the majority who live in the cities.

Old potato head really is a weapons grade plonker.

The discrimination he talks of presumably takes the form of urbanite taxpayers funding the payment of subsidies to farmers.

 

[Fallowfield]

I’m sure in the future someone will consider comparing the decline of “ farmland” species with the increase in access, disturbance must be a big influence in breeding success of a lot of species.

I very much doubt it. Not compared with loss of established habitats and decline of food supplies.

And if you think about it, are there really more people milling about the fields and meadows and heaths now compared to the days before mechanized farming?

 

[ajcc]

Old potato head really is a weapons grade plonker.
It takes one to know one!!!!

 

[le bon paysan]

Because other countries have more state owned or common land?

I was meaning public access across privately owned farmland.

I know in France there are no privately owned sporting rights and the general public can pursue wildlife without worrying about whose land they are on at the time.

Edit: Pages 6-8 on this pdf briefly describe the situation in other countries.

https://www.researchgate.net/public...costs_and_benefits_of_farmland_walking_trails

EEErrrrrrr, no they can't. They have to be a member of the chasse and have a hunting permit. You can't access private land here without permission. Chemins ( green lanes/ graveled tracks) are public rights of way and farmers must allow access.

 

[honeyend]

I think the problem is now most people have no idea how an animal which is not human is programmed by nature to behave, There is the attitude that animals are your friends that want to please you when really they programed by nature in a particular way which unless override by training is going to happen in a certain situation.
This attitude is reinforced by TV programmes and FB videos where animals are treated like cuddly toys and everything in a field is just decoration. A programme like Country File could do so much to educate the non farming community but would rather concentrate on the non-real cuddly county side.

Any 500kg+ animal in a field is a potential danger. My normally sensible child friendly pony would go for a dog in it's field and if the child was in the way it would get splattered.
I live near Cambridge and they have very picturesque cattle, sometimes long horns, grazing right in the town amongst tourists who have probably never seen a cow close up, complete with baby buggy and children.
https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/cambridges-famous-cows-back-grazing-12761543
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...ridge-attacking-women-because-of-their-colou/
Watching what some of the humans do its a wonder no one has been injured, the Chinese tourists thinks its a theme park.

I am very sorry that the gentleman got killed but it sounds as if the dog was in a field of cows, which is not a good idea. Then to try an save it was perhaps not the wisest decision. I would never try and save my dog it can run a lot faster than me and I would rather a cow chased it.
Just about every year people drown trying to save dogs from rivers from drowning, its not the river to blame, just lack of education about the dangers.

 

[andyt87]

Only last year I stopped in the car as a mother carried her child in a backframe through a field my Gramp used to tenant. Footpath cuts a diagonal across it whilst a perfectly good pavement goes around following the road and maybe takes a minute more. She had earphones on and oblivious to a bunch of lim stores with heads and tails up coming from far end to have a look. Luckily they stopped 100m behind her and lost interest..... glad I could just drive off after telling her to look behind her at the stile and see her face go white

 

[egbert]

Only last year I stopped in the car as a mother carried her child in a backframe through a field my Gramp used to tenant. Footpath cuts a diagonal across it whilst a perfectly good pavement goes around following the road and maybe takes a minute more. She had earphones on and oblivious to a bunch of lim stores with heads and tails up coming from far end to have a look. Luckily they stopped 100m behind her and lost interest..... glad I could just drive off after telling her to look behind her at the stile and see her face go white

I had a family of 'berserkers' backalong - bought as youngstock in the autumn of 2001.
As these heifers grew into cows, their behaviour newly calved was extremely chancy. They frightened me, and I've been playing with Galloways all my life.
One Easter Friday morning, one calved in some rushes about 20 yards from a bridlepath, which was going to see dozens...hundreds maybe, ramblers and dog walkers over the next 3 days.
I passed along the path looking for her, and her eyes were already on stalks, head weaving from side to side.
All I could do was leave her quiet - I certainly wasn't going to try and move her and calf further from trouble.
Somehow, nothing came of it, although i was waiting for the balloon to go up at any time.

As a coda.... she and her sisters slowly came right.
The worst one or two, and the whole of their first couple of crops, we killed they were so bad.
But by the end of their time with me, they were perfectly civil, and they bred much loved duffers you have to push out of the way.
We still got -and still get, the occasional one who won't adopt the required behaviour, but there's a simple cure for them.
The last one of the originals went last autumn, age 17

seemingly , it was almost all rough handling before they got here. Learned behaviour versus genetics?

 

[dannewhouse]

how do you factor in a cow that has been perfect for 9 calvings and then on the 10th normmall only if its a bad calving they get a bit frisky, should you cull the cow on the slight chance or keep it?
those that say cull some would end up with no cows!

 

[Fallowfield]

'it was almost all rough handling before they got here. Learned behaviour versus genetics?'


Maybe it's like psychopathy in humans, you are born with it, but the negative aspects are only triggered if you have an abusive upbringing.

 

[egbert]

how do you factor in a cow that has been perfect for 9 calvings and then on the 10th normmall only if its a bad calving they get a bit frisky, should you cull the cow on the slight chance or keep it?
those that say cull some would end up with no cows!

If she's given you 9 perfect calvings, that has to weigh in her favour. Is she easy to live with the rest of the year?
We cull on an assessment of a variety of measures, and giving me a hard time is pretty high on the list- not least because it would indicate a potential public nuisance.
In that aforementioned batch, it was circumstance that forced us to acquire them, and as said, they eventually settled so well that several stayed into their teens.

 

[egbert]

'it was almost all rough handling before they got here. Learned behaviour versus genetics?'


Maybe it's like psychopathy in humans, you are born with it, but the negative aspects are only triggered if you have an abusive upbringing.

Do you really want to talk about cows, or are you just just wanting to pick another fight?

I am a long time student of bovine psychology, and their interaction with us peasants.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if the symptom you describe in humans is an exact parallel, but i seldom make such observations out loud as there is always some uber clever urban liberal to shout me down, saying I'm some kind of Nazi.

Ironically, I sometimes manage to put into words the subtle balance twixt man and beast and landscape, in a fashion that my peers recognise.
I occasionally manage, if i may say, to grasp aspects of wider humanity and human culture because, I suspect, I see things from where I am.
Sadly, I get shouted at for those observations as well.

 

[SLA]

Unless they’re mental nutters cows generally don’t bother about dogs unless they are approaching the cows/calves, however young stock will often egg each other to investigate something/someone new and are just as likely to harass people as dogs, they can be far more unpredictable than breeding cows even if it’s not malicious.
It wouldn’t take much effort to teach the general public some basic rural H&S, I personally think the likes of the NFU should be providing an educational service, where they can provide a talk/demonstration on staying safe in the countryside to interested groups, schools etc

 

[Osca]

'it was almost all rough handling before they got here. Learned behaviour versus genetics?'


Maybe it's like psychopathy in humans, you are born with it, but the negative aspects are only triggered if you have an abusive upbringing.

Do you really want to talk about cows, or are you just just wanting to pick another fight?

Actually I thought that was quite an interesting observation, with perhaps more than a grain of truth in it.

 

[Lovegoodstock]

So when did you dream that up? you are always responsible for your own actions and your own livestock.

No I stand corrected, had heard a case where electric pylon workers got attacked after several days works, after 1/2 days they had "an encounter" and farmer said be wary of them they can be funny, or words to the effect. This was quite a few years ago, and he was found guilty on account of admitting knowledge of risky cattle. Appreciate as numbers of cases increased things have changed, did notice on lawyers previous cases and guidelines and ramblers guidelines it does clearly state that the farmer whilst not rightly so on many times is however the person accountable and liable, whilst not the point the fines and liable claims have not at all been that great or significant until a civil prosecution has been placed. I saw the case of a guy a few years back who had had 3 previous incidents that had injured foot path walkers prior to one being killed, he was fined a few quid. But the wording implied largely , or partly due to prior warnings and incidents. Not claiming whos right or wrong but used a relation whos a barrister clerk, and we spoke, clearly not of a specific case for legal reasons but in his fairly small experience of civil prosecutions in this matter more have been lost than won against the farmer, and these have been all injury claims and not death. As someone said earlier in wording warning signs, it can be important. I often thought a warning sign admitted guilt, back to earlier posts of general publics lack of stock knowledge, a warning sign doesn't admit guilt. Stating cattle have been fed with a bag and if public carry a bag cattle can be confused and be interested in people thinking they will be fed by them, and clear recommendations that carrying a dog in the event of cattle interest is effectively foolish and can provoke cattle injury, it is clear to get correctly worded warning signs, that came up with my insurance broker the other week, under legal insurance you can upgrade for 100/150 quid for an upgrade, not normally something id go for, but allows you contact for issues like this to get legal wording correct so you wont get come back from these fools that want everything prim and proper, courtesy of animals, then sue the farmer when they have an issue with the things that maintain what they desire on a walk!! PM if anyone wants those details of legal cover etc