Any Future.

digger64

Member
The cash will be aimed at environmental goods, not just propping up agribusinesses like Agrii, Fendt and Vaderstad. Many folk haven't grasped the fact that that they will have to work a lot harder to get it from that different direction. Agricultural production will reduce and certainly de-intensify, or farmed normally on a smaller % of the farm. In my opinion, anyway. What's your view?
I believe your predictions for commodities to be spot on , but I think agri businesses operate all over the world regardless of subsidies though .
Well I was looking forward to it and very positive about it, I saw that we might get the chance to move onto more poorer arable type land work our stock like in the US /Canada / NZ style on the basis of low rental value , Also grow crops for my own use (with perhaps an odd cash crop but not all arable cash cropping as most do now) , erase the straw/ winter fodder cost issues by being more self sufficient , without massive capital inputs also not be tarmac farming alot of the time chasing small bits of land . I felt it would be possible to compete with bigger farms with our low overheads and resourcefulness/flexibility as long as the sub was removed and land rent consequently low .
I tend to idolise the pre war tenants like Cherrington, Brun etc
and their methods that I have read about .
But now personally I can only see us losing our mainly marginal land to ELMS and the rent on the remaining farmable land being uneconomic due to the setaside effect whilst straw and other stock feeds etc being expensive due to the consequent reduced crop areas (also some of the prescriptive policies about to be inflicted on arable farmers) and our summer pastures will probably be flooded to grow unproductive rushes etc . (no I dont see producing 3 year old highland bullocks as the answer to competeing on the world market without sub) . The imports will arrive one day and we have to be able to work at that level that means cheaper land costs etc (rent) or subsidy- not prescriptions , so I see park keeping on the horizon for those who own their land .
I read that you saw AB15 etc as the way forward for you for a very significant % of your farm area for example .
I think that UK ag needs to get of its high horse and red tractor etc and accept a ton of feed wheat is a ton of feed wheat and work out how to competitively grow it .
So with the high stock prices I keep thinking perhaps we should walk away but I dont want to and I dont think I have the guts too .
 

DrWazzock

Member
Location
Lincolnshire
Been in the indrustry since i was 14 now 51. The constant bombardment from organisations, groups and people i ask myself is there any future in this indrustry?
I think I and many our age could have written that. When my father got to this age he felt similar but myself and brother had more energy or tolerance for the admin and regs side so helped him through it. We haven’t really got any successors old enough yet so feel a bit beleaguered by it all. Keeping our heads down and carrying on until somebody tells us to stop. A day in tractor away from it all helps. I don’t cooperate with workshops, seminars or initiatives any more. Hopefully we can get through the next 20 years with minimal external engagement. Switch the telly and social media off.
 
I believe your predictions for commodities to be spot on , but I think agri businesses operate all over the world regardless of subsidies though .
Well I was looking forward to it and very positive about it, I saw that we might get the chance to move onto more poorer arable type land work our stock like in the US /Canada / NZ style on the basis of low rental value , Also grow crops for my own use (with perhaps an odd cash crop but not all arable cash cropping as most do now) , erase the straw/ winter fodder cost issues by being more self sufficient , without massive capital inputs also not be tarmac farming alot of the time chasing small bits of land . I felt it would be possible to compete with bigger farms with our low overheads and resourcefulness/flexibility as long as the sub was removed and land rent consequently low .
I tend to idolise the pre war tenants like Cherrington, Brun etc
and their methods that I have read about .
But now personally I can only see us losing our mainly marginal land to ELMS and the rent on the remaining farmable land being uneconomic due to the setaside effect whilst straw and other stock feeds etc being expensive due to the consequent reduced crop areas (also some of the prescriptive policies about to be inflicted on arable farmers) and our summer pastures will probably be flooded to grow unproductive rushes etc . (no I dont see producing 3 year old highland bullocks as the answer to competeing on the world market without sub) . The imports will arrive one day and we have to be able to work at that level that means cheaper land costs etc (rent) or subsidy- not prescriptions , so I see park keeping on the horizon for those who own their land .
I read that you saw AB15 etc as the way forward for you for a very significant % of your farm area for example .
I think that UK ag needs to get of its high horse and red tractor etc and accept a ton of feed wheat is a ton of feed wheat and work out how to competitively grow it .
So with the high stock prices I keep thinking perhaps we should walk away but I dont want to and I dont think I have the guts too .
I agree it is likely to make an imbalance to forage and grain supplies that not even the best crystal ball gazer can foresee. It’s hard to know which direction to go especially on a small farm. It would be great to make a decent profit without bothering with elms.
 

Brisel

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
North Yorkshire
I believe your predictions for commodities to be spot on , but I think agri businesses operate all over the world regardless of subsidies though .
Well I was looking forward to it and very positive about it, I saw that we might get the chance to move onto more poorer arable type land work our stock like in the US /Canada / NZ style on the basis of low rental value , Also grow crops for my own use (with perhaps an odd cash crop but not all arable cash cropping as most do now) , erase the straw/ winter fodder cost issues by being more self sufficient , without massive capital inputs also not be tarmac farming alot of the time chasing small bits of land . I felt it would be possible to compete with bigger farms with our low overheads and resourcefulness/flexibility as long as the sub was removed and land rent consequently low .
I tend to idolise the pre war tenants like Cherrington, Brun etc
and their methods that I have read about .
But now personally I can only see us losing our mainly marginal land to ELMS and the rent on the remaining farmable land being uneconomic due to the setaside effect whilst straw and other stock feeds etc being expensive due to the consequent reduced crop areas (also some of the prescriptive policies about to be inflicted on arable farmers) and our summer pastures will probably be flooded to grow unproductive rushes etc . (no I dont see producing 3 year old highland bullocks as the answer to competeing on the world market without sub) . The imports will arrive one day and we have to be able to work at that level that means cheaper land costs etc (rent) or subsidy- not prescriptions , so I see park keeping on the horizon for those who own their land .
I read that you saw AB15 etc as the way forward for you for a very significant % of your farm area for example .
I think that UK ag needs to get of its high horse and red tractor etc and accept a ton of feed wheat is a ton of feed wheat and work out how to competitively grow it .
So with the high stock prices I keep thinking perhaps we should walk away but I dont want to and I dont think I have the guts too .
Rents are going to be a tricky one. Landlords & agents saw BPS as underwriting the rent. Hopefully they will understand that the associated costs of ELMS are far higher. I've got 3 awkward conversations to have with landlords agents in the next 2 years as I tell them that the rents will fall. ELMS just muddies the waters.

Do you not see less stock as well as less crops overall? I can see a day where stock owners are paid to graze in order to help manage the sward for ELMS, not the other way around.
 
Batten the hatches down. Get rid of debt, stop buying anything that is not absolutely essential and on the other side there will be opportunities for the brave. We are already in high inflation with interest rates to follow. Bear in mind govt has borrowed already at low rates and needs inflation to reduce the bill for covid.
 
Precisely. Why I started this thread, to try and get folks to make a noise about ELMS. As it stands it is going to be a disaster.

https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/all-this-grass.334332/
My understanding listening here is that it is not a Subsidy, just covering costs of those incurred. Okay you can contract your neighbour at Council costs and vice versa but it will not get to where you are now money wise. New world guys, cut costs sharply to survive.
 

delilah

Member

4course

Member
Location
north yorks
Rents are going to be a tricky one. Landlords & agents saw BPS as underwriting the rent. Hopefully they will understand that the associated costs of ELMS are far higher. I've got 3 awkward conversations to have with landlords agents in the next 2 years as I tell them that the rents will fall. ELMS just muddies the waters.

Do you not see less stock as well as less crops overall? I can see a day where stock owners are paid to graze in order to help manage the sward for ELMS, not the other way around.
short term i.e 5years ( cant think any further)dont see rents falling ,the folk who will push to replace the falling payments will keep rents on productive land where they are or higher just as some are doing now and in the last few years with the tenders for short term lets, fbt,being beyond the comprehension of many
 

delilah

Member
Yes, but it only covers costs, it doesn't leave any room for carpet slipper farmers.
Sure, but that wasn't the issue, which is subsidized growing of grass, to the detriment of LFA's, on land that should be producing more valuable crops as it does now.
 

jendan

Member
short term i.e 5years ( cant think any further)dont see rents falling ,the folk who will push to replace the falling payments will keep rents on productive land where they are or higher just as some are doing now and in the last few years with the tenders for short term lets, fbt,being beyond the comprehension of many
I cant see rents falling either and are much more likely to increase substantially.I wouldnt like to be negotiating a 3 year rent review now,with record sheep prices,cattle at 400p,wheat at £200/t,and milk at 30p. How the hell are you going to justify a rent reduction? There is still huge competition for land,either rent short or long term,or to buy.
 

Clive

Staff Member
BASE UK Member
Location
Lichfield
Been in the indrustry since i was 14 now 51. The constant bombardment from organisations, groups and people i ask myself is there any future in this indrustry?
I’m slightly younger but can’t help but feel this industry has engineered its own demise in the last 20 years

easy to blame others but this generation of farmers truly are their own worst enemies

the future will be what we choose it to be
 

jendan

Member
Rents are going to be a tricky one. Landlords & agents saw BPS as underwriting the rent. Hopefully they will understand that the associated costs of ELMS are far higher. I've got 3 awkward conversations to have with landlords agents in the next 2 years as I tell them that the rents will fall. ELMS just muddies the waters.

Do you not see less stock as well as less crops overall? I can see a day where stock owners are paid to graze in order to help manage the sward for ELMS, not the other way around.
Are you really being serious? If i told my landlord or agent to pay me to graze their land,they would tell me i was mad,laugh in my face,and tell me to F off. If i gave the land up,there would be at least two dozen offers of rent(and probably higher than what i was paying) before i drove back home from their office.
 

Johnnyboxer

Member
Location
Yorkshire
I think I and many our age could have written that.

Keeping our heads down and carrying on until somebody tells us to stop.

A day in tractor away from it all helps.

I don’t cooperate with workshops, seminars or initiatives any more.

Hopefully we can get through the next 20 years with minimal external engagement.

Switch the telly and social media off.
Is that wise?
 

jendan

Member
I believe your predictions for commodities to be spot on , but I think agri businesses operate all over the world regardless of subsidies though .
Well I was looking forward to it and very positive about it, I saw that we might get the chance to move onto more poorer arable type land work our stock like in the US /Canada / NZ style on the basis of low rental value , Also grow crops for my own use (with perhaps an odd cash crop but not all arable cash cropping as most do now) , erase the straw/ winter fodder cost issues by being more self sufficient , without massive capital inputs also not be tarmac farming alot of the time chasing small bits of land . I felt it would be possible to compete with bigger farms with our low overheads and resourcefulness/flexibility as long as the sub was removed and land rent consequently low .
I tend to idolise the pre war tenants like Cherrington, Brun etc
and their methods that I have read about .
But now personally I can only see us losing our mainly marginal land to ELMS and the rent on the remaining farmable land being uneconomic due to the setaside effect whilst straw and other stock feeds etc being expensive due to the consequent reduced crop areas (also some of the prescriptive policies about to be inflicted on arable farmers) and our summer pastures will probably be flooded to grow unproductive rushes etc . (no I dont see producing 3 year old highland bullocks as the answer to competeing on the world market without sub) . The imports will arrive one day and we have to be able to work at that level that means cheaper land costs etc (rent) or subsidy- not prescriptions , so I see park keeping on the horizon for those who own their land .
I read that you saw AB15 etc as the way forward for you for a very significant % of your farm area for example .
I think that UK ag needs to get of its high horse and red tractor etc and accept a ton of feed wheat is a ton of feed wheat and work out how to competitively grow it .
So with the high stock prices I keep thinking perhaps we should walk away but I dont want to and I dont think I have the guts too .
Cherrington didnt stay a tenant for very long! He hated the Landlord/Tenant system and bought his own land as soon as he was able. Timing was on his side though,as he started out in the very nadir of the depression.
 

Rejuvenating swards: Which option is best?

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Written by Brian McDonnell

Maintaining grass quality during mid-season grazing is important. Farmers can maintain quality by entering ideal grazing covers of 1,300 – 1,500kg DM/ha, and grazing down to a residual of 4cm every rotation.

If you are now in a situation where cows are not cleaning out paddocks as well as they should be, leading to the development of steamy grass within the sward, here are some options.

Common options for rejuvenating swards include:

  1. Take a silage cut, probably into bales, remove the material and start again with the aftermath...
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