anyone on spreading fert

[bankrupt]

it won't be long before that needs to motor.

That's always the eternal dilemma with forward crops, Brisel.

The more advanced the crop, the earlier it needs its N to establish grain numbers and the later it needs its N to protect grain size.

Thank goodness I haven't got any.

 

[Surgery]

Could be spin on , washed away in places after Doris

 

[Zippy768]

Thank you for the graphs @Brisel . Perhaps a little bit technical for me at moment, only third year of growing any size of crops. Would you put any sulphur on at this time of year or just a dose of N. Typically we have just split the N, with all the sulphur in one of the doses. But trying to spread a little earlier this year.
How many passes do you typically go over your WB and WW?

 

[Feldspar]

Thank you for the graphs @Brisel . Perhaps a little bit technical for me at moment, only third year of growing any size of crops. Would you put any sulphur on at this time of year or just a dose of N. Typically we have just split the N, with all the sulphur in one of the doses. But trying to spread a little earlier this year.
How many passes do you typically go over your WB and WW?

The mainstream advice is to apply your S early doors with your first N dose of the season (depending on your form of P fertiliser). Whilst practically, especially if using solid non-blended fert, it easy to follow this advice, sulphate ions are leachable in the same what that nitrate ions are. Therefore, you do run the risk of losing some if you get a wet start the spring. That said, I don't think I'm aware of an trials data that shows that spreading the S throughout the season gives better results, even if common sense said it might. If, on the other hand, you were applying liquid, then it would make sense to have a low concentration of S and apply it at the same time as all N doses. Horses for courses in the end.

 

[Zippy768]

The mainstream advice is to apply your S early doors with your first N dose of the season (depending on your form of P fertiliser). Whilst practically, especially if using solid non-blended fert, it easy to follow this advice, sulphate ions are leachable in the same what that nitrate ions are. Therefore, you do run the risk of losing some if you get a wet start the spring. That said, I don't think I'm aware of an trials data that shows that spreading the S throughout the season gives better results, even if common sense said it might. If, on the other hand, you were applying liquid, then it would make sense to have a low concentration of S and apply it at the same time as all N doses. Horses for courses in the end.

Solid fert here. The possible leaching was what I was wondering. So I thought maybe people putting on a dose of N now (solid fert) would leave the sulphur for risk of wetness and just pop a few units of N on to wake it up. Then N plus sulphur when weather is more likely settled. That process would then require three passes over barley? 30/40 units N now, then N plus S, then remaining N? If so when would the last two passes go on if I managed the "wake up" dose early next week?

 

[Feldspar]

Solid fert here. The possible leaching was what I was wondering. So I thought maybe people putting on a dose of N now (solid fert) would leave the sulphur for risk of wetness and just pop a few units of N on to wake it up. Then N plus sulphur when weather is more likely settled. That process would then require three passes over barley? 30/40 units N now, then N plus S, then remaining N? If so when would the last two passes go on if I managed the "wake up" dose early next week?

We have two lots to put on to make up the early N requirement. 125 kg/ha of DAP and Double Top. It's a bit of pain, but it does mean we can put DAP on pretty early, as I did yesterday on some, which can stand some wetter weather, and then top up with the Double Top a bit later than a normal 1st N dose. If you just put N on now, what form would it take? DAP often quite an economical form of N.

 

[Zippy768]

It would be straight Urea now and the sulphur blend is also Urea 38:0:0:19s. I appreciate that there maybe some negative thoughts on Urea, but that is what old man ordered and is now in the barn. So when would you go with your double top?

 

[Feldspar]

It would be straight Urea now and the sulphur blend is also Urea 38:0:0:19s. I appreciate that there maybe some negative thoughts on Urea, but that is what old man ordered and is now in the barn. So when would you go with your double top?

Nothing wrong with urea (although have never used it!). NIAB trials show no penalty to using urea. Also allows for early application without leaching risk too.

2nd wheats have had DAP already, as has most of the winter barley. Backward 2nd wheats and all barley will have Double Top at next available opportunity. Forward 1st wheats might have DT delayed a bit and just have DAP at next available opportunity.

 

[E_B]

Thank you for the graphs @Brisel . Perhaps a little bit technical for me at moment, only third year of growing any size of crops. Would you put any sulphur on at this time of year or just a dose of N. Typically we have just split the N, with all the sulphur in one of the doses. But trying to spread a little earlier this year.
How many passes do you typically go over your WB and WW?

We are going with straight AN to start with on our barley this week, more through circumstance than deliberate. We will then chuck the S on with the second (and final, only have time for two passes) N application. P & K requirements are met by muck and injected crap prior to the last crop.

A bit breezy is it not? I should stick with hedge cutting until Doris has gone through.

Decided to go with the hedgecutter option in the end. Although not all that windy here today. Aiming for Friday now, will give me time to find last year's diary. Some patches of barley are starting to get yellow ends now.

 

[Zippy768]

Nothing wrong with urea (although have never used it!). NIAB trials show no penalty to using urea. Also allows for early application without leaching risk too.

2nd wheats have had DAP already, as has most of the winter barley. Backward 2nd wheats and all barley will have Double Top at next available opportunity. Forward 1st wheats might have DT delayed a bit and just have DAP at next available opportunity.

So your sulphur requirement on your 2nd WW and WB will be going on in the next window? That will leave just remaining N on WB for later March? Or are you splitting the sulphur application? Sorry for so many questions

 

[Feldspar]

So your sulphur requirement on your 2nd WW and WB will be going on in the next window? That will leave just remaining N on WB for later March? Or are you splitting the sulphur application? Sorry for so many questions

All sulfur on in one go. Not saying that's ideal though. Ideal would probably be to feed throughout the season. Sometimes we use Double Top on the milling wheats for the protein dressing if we have some left over - not as a routine though.

 

[Zippy768]

We are going with straight AN to start with on our barley this week, more through circumstance than deliberate. We will then chuck the S on with the second (and final, only have time for two passes) N application. P & K requirements are met by muck and injected crap prior to the last crop.



Decided to go with the hedgecutter option in the end. Although not all that windy here today. Aiming for Friday now, will give me time to find last year's diary. Some patches of barley are starting to get yellow ends now.

So how many units of N are you gonna chuck on your wb this week? So your sulphur will be going on in later March? That is what we have done in the past, tho like you, not deliberate. I would rather like to keep to two passes but figured that would men N, N+S, N

 

[Zippy768]

All sulfur on in one go. Not saying that's ideal though. Ideal would probably be to feed throughout the season. Sometimes we use Double Top on the milling wheats for the protein dressing if we have some left over - not as a routine though.

I was aiming for next week, so probably into March by weds. So now thinking just smacking the N and S . To get the S requirements would mean about 60 units of N, with the remaining 100 units nearer the end of the month. Wb that is. Sounds ok? Thanks for the advice

 

[Two Tone]

We started yesterday mid day and stopped at 8 pm. Then finished this afternoon when the wind dropped. All the Double top now on. 2 cwt/acre (250 Kgs/ha) on Barley and Wheat, 3 cwt/acre (375kgs/ha) on Rape

Couldn't believe how well it all travelled. Usually have to "Ice Road Truck" it on a frost in February

 

[Feldspar]

I was aiming for next week, so probably into March by weds. So now thinking just smacking the N and S . To get the S requirements would mean about 60 units of N, with the remaining 100 units nearer the end of the month. Wb that is. Sounds ok? Thanks for the advice

Are you talking about units or kg/ha? 160 units is quite high for winter barley unless aiming for over 8t/ha. Presumably it's feed? Recommendation is for 25-38 kg/ha of SO3 for winter barley. Ideally aim for 40-50 kg/ha in the first dose. Don't know where that leaves you.

 

[Zippy768]

Are you talking about units or kg/ha? 160 units is quite high for winter barley unless aiming for over 8t/ha. Presumably it's feed? Recommendation is for 25-38 kg/ha of SO3 for winter barley. Ideally aim for 40-50 kg/ha in the first dose. Don't know where that leaves you.

In units. You think 160 a little high, what are you planning? I fancy three ton min. Just feed. That was the sulphur requirement I was aiming for. To get that I gotta be putting on 50-60units/ 60-75kg/ht of N first time round. Maybe chose the wrong blend

 

[Brisel]

Thank you for the graphs @Brisel . Perhaps a little bit technical for me at moment, only third year of growing any size of crops. Would you put any sulphur on at this time of year or just a dose of N. Typically we have just split the N, with all the sulphur in one of the doses. But trying to spread a little earlier this year.
How many passes do you typically go over your WB and WW?

I used to have logistics like that with solid. 26N 35SO3 at the first dose for all crops then straight AN later for the main splits. First doses on winter wheat 40 kg N, 90 kg N on osr, 60-80 kg N on winter barley and around 30 kg N on spring crops. SO3 doses are therefore 54, 121, 94 and 40 kg respectively. That's not really enough for wheat & spring crops on thin soils and plenty for osr & barley but that was the fertiliser I could get that did everything in one bag.

WW & WB 3 splits, OSR 2 - 3 splits depending on canopy management, spring crops 2 splits (first on seedbed & final at 2 leaf in malting barley or green bud in linseed).

As above, if you only have the means to get your sulphur on once then do it sooner rather than later. S deficiency has serious implications in crops that set a lot of yield potential early like osr (flower buds need S) and winter barley (grain sites per ear set at GS 30).

I think the trade ought to consider urea or AN compounds that have lower levels of SO3 relative to N so farmers could apply little and often with one product all season rather than a big dose of SO3 early on that could leach some out. The main UK manufacturers have balanced products but we all seem to want straights these days for ease of price comparison.

 

[Flat 10]

Are you talking about units or kg/ha? 160 units is quite high for winter barley unless aiming for over 8t/ha. Presumably it's feed? Recommendation is for 25-38 kg/ha of SO3 for winter barley. Ideally aim for 40-50 kg/ha in the first dose. Don't know where that leaves you.

If you are growing feed winter barley surely you have to be aiming for over 8t/ha or it won't add up financially? I certainly wouldn't be starving it this early if it looked decent. 160units is quite high mind, I think I will only do 145.

 

[Brisel]

Margin - not yield. Lots of good low cost growers out there. The latter does help the former though.

 

[Devon James]

Very tidy Claydon drilled? Uncle Jeff would be proud of that!

No hurry but it won't be long before that needs to motor. Barley is all about tillers, so hang on to as many as possible. Then spend a fortune later keeping it upright.

Brother made a good job of plough/roll/combo in this one. It was wheat last year out of long term grass. Some stubborn couch grass ment we thought better to plough it and set it up for dd osr next time.
Glad we are lambing or we would have been out with N and Doris may have washed that.